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Alright.

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Well,

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welcome.

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Welcome

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to this

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this amazing event. I'm very excited

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to be

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hosting this book launch for this amazing book, Nourished by Deborah McNamara,

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who is beside me here.

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And it's called Nourished Connection, Food, and Caring for Kids and Everyone Else We Love.

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And I am really excited to dive into this, talk about this a little bit, wet your appetite because today is launch day.

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Today is when the book is released.

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I have a preview of it, and I have thoroughly enjoyed reading it and will share some thoughts of it later.

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But I wanna pass it first

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to, to Gordon Neufeld to share some thoughts.

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Well, yes. Welcome.

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Welcome to all of you. I am incredibly excited about this book.

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I think

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it is an absolute seminal work

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in the area. It will be foundational. It will be around for years and years to come.

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It will be a classic.

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I am so excited about it. It's,

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at at least, I guess, ten years in the making.

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I remember having a conversation with you, Deborah, several years ago

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about

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what the topic of your next writing project would be.

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And, you were you you were trying to decide between a couple of subjects, and now I can't imagine

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you not have written this book.

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It is so important,

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so timely,

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so needed.

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I I think every single

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human will need to to to read this. I I

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I read it as a book of reconciliation,

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of restoration.

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It it's actually a book of redemption,

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of righting a great wrong in our society.

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The tragic coming apart

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of food,

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caring, and connection.

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The Industrial Revolution

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when when food became made in factories,

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when it was made convenient,

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when food and connection were divorced,

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when growing and eating were divorced, and all of these things became separated. And

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this is,

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is is

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is is a book of of,

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restoration,

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of redemption,

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of coming back together. And

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of all

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of the focus on food these days,

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there's nothing like this. There is not a single

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thing like this.

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And as as I was reading it, I I was well, there's so many things that came to mind.

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First of all, I had the privilege of reading it piece by piece, chapter by chapter, commenting on it and so on and so on.

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And so I I but in preparation for this launch,

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I I

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I went cover to cover,

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which was a different way of of of reading the book. And,

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it was stunning. Absolutely stunning. It was breathtaking.

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I it was engaging.

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I loved it.

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Absolutely.

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I loved it. It's it's a masterpiece.

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And it it it's

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you you've taken a a difficult subject

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and you've laid it out for us with such

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clarity, such compassion,

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such brilliance,

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and such

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generosity.

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In fact, I found one of the main impacts of the book and I'm sure you will you you will agree with me once you get the chance.

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Is

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is

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it brought out the generosity in me? I wanted to be more generous.

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I wanted to be a better caretaker.

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I wanted to restore the rituals. It was like

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it's like some part of me knew all of this but but you hit me over the head with it.

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You know you you in the most friendly way you have of doing these things with a twinkle in your in your in your eye you hit me over the head time and time and time again.

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Just with oh my oh yes.

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Yes. I need to remember this. This is the way you take care of your loved ones.

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It is this is the this is the way you deliver food.

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And and so it

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it it just it just,

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it wanted me to reach to the better angels of my nature.

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You have that quote in your book and I forget who said it, but yes.

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Was it Abraham Lincoln that said it? Yes.

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And you it is hardest to see. I, you know, people I I want you to appreciate the fact

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that it's the hardest to write about that which is underneath our noses,

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that which is invisible, that which was always supposed to be the fabric of our culture.

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You'll have to have distance

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but you have to listen to yourself intimately.

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You have to gather all the aspects of yourself, have them line up,

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and you do this dance

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wonderfully,

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to be able to deliver it in a way that goes down

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so

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so

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smoothly.

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I, you know, and and I have to say, Deborah, you are smooth.

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But, you know, I've always commented to you, you know, when you got up to speak, you were smooth.

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It seemed effortless

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effortless.

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Now I know writing isn't effortless.

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I know it takes great effort and deliberation and contemplation and every sentence is weighed

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and weighed again and so on. But the way it comes across, it flows

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one sentence to another. It just goes. You you don't wanna put it down.

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The the only the only, I would say,

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downside

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of this smoothness is you don't realize when you've been hit over the head.

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You have to kind of let it sink in. You know? I was just confronted there, you know.

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And it

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like, you get hit over the head. And some of the gems

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some of the gems that are hiding in this, you say it in a way that's so smooth that it goes away.

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Wait, this should be in bold. This should be italics. This should be in you know exclamation marks.

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You have so many

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so many gems there, you know.

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Like the thing about we can't forget that rituals are an extension and expression of our caretaking.

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I mean I love first of all you say we can't forget.

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You include yourself, you bring us into the place of oh yes, I forgot which I have

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and, you know over and over again but but you you bring us into that place

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and and then unfold,

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you know, how it is that,

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that we can we can do this. I

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I think I, I I you know, this book is like food in many ways.

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It's like food. It's best ingested

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and digested, I believe, in the context of togetherness.

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I think it will be best understood. We'll gather our own stories. You've given us a way to

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remember ourselves,

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separate the re and the membering,

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to remember ourselves

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the stories of food which we all have

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and the stories of care which we all have and the stories of love which we all all have, and of caretaking.

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And so you've given us this way, but I think it's best ingested and digested

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in the context of of togetherness. And I I think that will

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that,

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I I'm so glad that you gave us all of these things. You included your your,

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interview questions,

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and then you included about five or six questions for reflection, for study groups, for personal reflection

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in each chapter. You've you've you've made it easy for us.

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When I was reading it, first of all, I was kind of like,

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you know, taking

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I I enjoying

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my part of being

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of being the teacher. I've laid out the foundation.

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And then as I got into it, it was more like, no. This isn't the sequel

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to hold on to your kids. This is the prequel.

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This is the prequel. And and why I say it's the prequel?

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Because you go to the essence. There couldn't be anything more essential

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than

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taking care of through food in the context of connection.

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There couldn't be anything essential and if you get that dance, the rest unfolds.

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And what you've done is taught the developmental

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approach

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in the way that there's no argument.

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Right? It's the only way the pieces fit together.

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There is no argument. You're either open

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or you're not open. Some will be open to hear it, but it won't. So in many ways, it

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it was a prequel. It was like, no. Read that first. You get a real sense of the very essence of

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what the developmental approach is, what nature is.

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And the other thing that came to me in this is, you know, you write in chapter 10. It's 10 chapters.

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And you you shouldn't be able to put down a book in the middle of the chapter because Deborah tells stories and you have to find out just, you know, how how we use all of this together.

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So you need to read a chapter.

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So it means that there's ten days of reading, you know, for these chapters, and then you go back to to do this, you know, this is but,

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but in in chapter 10,

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you you you write something that couldn't be more true.

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The need for matchmakers to nature has never been greater.

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And then I stopped all of a sudden and said,

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oh my goodness, Deborah.

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That's what this book is. That's what you are.

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You are matchmaking

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us to nature.

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The wisdom of nature, how it was meant to be at its very core, its gut,

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at the gut level,

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you know, at at the wisdom of all of this. And I love your closing paragraph.

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You know, again, because

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you you are such an emissary for nature. You are such a matchmaker.

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And you say, nature's promise to us is to help us take care of each other.

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Caring is our gift to give,

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and it doesn't require words or lessons or even reward.

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Our job is to keep the invitation

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in our heart warm

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and to remember that food

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serves us best

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when it serves togetherness.

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Feeding someone has always been our universal language

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for love,

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and the whole book is about bringing these things together. I I I it's a, again,

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confrontation, redemption,

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and if the impact was the same as as it was for,

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for for me,

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to to

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want me to I I I wanna be more generous in in,

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in my caring.

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And, oh my goodness. There is so much of you in this book, Deborah.

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I I don't think a story like this could be shared without giving a window to you as a person.

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We get to feel you. We get to sense you. You've shared yourself deeply with us

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intimately and you're learning and discovery.

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You're inclusive. You bring us in that journey with you. We come to know your family,

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your culture, your ancestors, your childhood, your husband.

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We come to know you made pies when you were pregnant over, you know, and over again for no reason that you could think of.

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You know? And

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we we just know you.

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We know your grandfather was an English gardener and he, you know, and he taught you the the the basic lesson of of attachment that

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that he knew that roots were nature's way of attaching living things together to ensure

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survival.

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And we get to know we get to know your your kids and their stories and and the muffins and,

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and,

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and I loved

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Madeline's

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Where I'm From,

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little piece. Oh, my goodness. I I I went to it. Yeah. When you read it, people, be prepared to cry.

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I I'm usually quite analytical because I'm reading this to see, you know, just how it fits in and all of those pieces

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and I couldn't get to page 31.

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There's a little piece on let them eat cake and oh my goodness, the tears came

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and they came with a Yaya carrot muffins,

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the Yaya is a nickname for for Hannah. It's also the name of the the the type of carrot

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and

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and the last story as well, the tears came which which is amazing

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because

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you're brilliant as a theorist,

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You are in a master teacher as far as a developmentalist.

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But your your ability to write so it touches the heart

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is is is something that is rare.

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And,

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I, you know, I loved it. I loved your piece on rituals and invisibility,

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why some things need to remain hidden.

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I, you know,

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you you know, I I I love this stuff on rituals, and I love this stuff on hiddenness.

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But you brought it out in a way that just had me contemplating yes yes yes

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with huge exclamation

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marks. You know and I'll just

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I'll just read this quote. What we can't lose sight of

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is how our gathering rituals make the work of relationship

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invisible.

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Gathering rituals hide

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relational intentions

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so that it feels like an invisible gift based on who we are

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rather

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than on our performances

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before performances we give.

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Rituals allows

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us as guardians to appear as the answer instead of always being in search of them.

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Rituals matter because they are the threads that hold the tapestry of life together.

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Yeah.

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I,

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there there were so many things I I

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I I loved. I love the story about the children and the lilies that really got to me.

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And

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and again, I was confronted,

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in in the most gentlest of ways, but I could feel the frying pan on the head or however you say that.

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And,

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and it's garnished praise. I I one of the one of the ones that I loved,

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on here is it it's,

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by Mona, Delahook.

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Stunningly beautiful. And it is stunning. I was stunned. I I think it's a good word for it.

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It's stunningly beautiful.

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An ode to love,

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relationships,

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and food.

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It,

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Gaber says, a timely, wise, and much needed book in a society that alien alienates us from our caregiving instincts.

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Its lessons could not be more urgent.

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The book is a gift, a provocation, and a legacy to pass on. It is a provocation

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but absolutely solid

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and a legacy to pass on, explore, and create dialogue

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with our own children and grandchildren, read and be inspired, and I I don't know how one wouldn't

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if one lets it in, and that's a part. If one one lets it in to where it came from in you, Deborah,

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then,

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then it's truly something to

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inspire us,

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to

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take care of our loved ones,

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to see food in a way that we've never seen food before,

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not in its entirety like this. And those who have always done this intuitively

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will be able to recognize themselves in it.

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Those who have lost their intuitions will be able to find their way back.

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Again, I think everybody should read it.

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I could go on and on, but it is an absolute honor and a privilege. And

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it is an incredible way,

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that that you have matchmaked us back to nature in this,

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to the way it always,

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should have been,

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always was,

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and and,

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needs to be.

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Well, I I I I need to make Deborah to share, time to share, because I asked her if she would give us a little bit of the inside

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of this,

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this journey for her.

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Well, thank you. I'm feeling a little reclined,

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of your comments and your

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reflection and

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found myself quite lost

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in listening to you reflect on the book and,

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sort of going through the book again. But through your eyes has just been

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so wonderful. And thank you for your

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incredibly generous words and,

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for all the time and patience you took with this because there were some really

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nasty drafts

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and some things to go through and, you know, just a a heartfelt thank you to this entire community, the Neufeld community and everyone who came out tonight.

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I can assure people there was nothing nasty. It it it always was good.

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It just got better and better. That's all.

305
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My sister said there was a chapter 11. My sister said, nope. No way.

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That's not going that's horrible.

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And then he said, well, I didn't mind it. I'm just like, okay.

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But the feedback I had along the way and the support I had along the way because writing is so isolating and

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I'm just so grateful and,

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and people were so generous with their stories and, and, and you've been so generous with your comments tonight.

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So thank you. I could wait full already. I feel like I could, I could leave.

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But,

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I do want to tell you a little bit about what the process was.

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I guess you, Gordon, you had invited me to share

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sort of the inside,

316
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a perspective that probably people won't get. We can talk about the book.

317
00:18:27.580 --> 00:18:28.620
You know, you can read the book.

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00:18:28.620 --> 00:18:33.680
But what is the story behind the book, I guess, is, I think, an interesting story.

319
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And so one of the questions that I ask is why write this book? Like, why would

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anyone take off take on this topic?

321
00:18:40.865 --> 00:18:45.125
And it comes back to you and my children again. Right. And having two children,

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one who is very easy to feed and one who is not and who is very picky, as we would say, and very resistant.

323
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And here I was,

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doing my postdoctoral internship with you, helping families learn about, you know, helping families with relational issues, behavioral issues,

325
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studying this.

326
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And then there I was in my own feeding practices with my youngest creating a relational problem.

327
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I'm like,

328
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there was no

329
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integrity

330
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inside of me. I was in full conflict

331
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and I was so worried about what was happening with my daughter that she wasn't,

332
00:19:17.539 --> 00:19:21.399
as I would put it now, receptive to me. She wasn't depending on me.

333
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And I was deeply ashamed that this had happened.

334
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And so I remember coming into a meeting with you and saying, I do have to ask you this question.

335
00:19:29.059 --> 00:19:31.715
And I won't spoil it for people because it's the first

336
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story. Yes.

337
00:19:34.015 --> 00:19:37.075
You gave an incredibly cheeky answer, which

338
00:19:37.695 --> 00:19:38.195
I

339
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know to be you, which was actually very helpful.

340
00:19:42.015 --> 00:19:44.835
But at the time, I Well, you do make the most of it.

341
00:19:45.615 --> 00:19:48.650
Well, I don't think, you know, you're you're lacking.

342
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You know, you didn't give me an answer, but I don't think you anticipate I would write a book to figure out.

343
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But what I appreciate

344
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most

345
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is your integrity

346
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to not answer questions

347
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that parents must find inside themselves. And so when I reflect on this book,

348
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I think about the generosity and the faith you had in me

349
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not to answer that question and not to be tempted to be the expert to give advice, because it would be very easy to do that in today's culture

350
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that is so filled with parenting advice and people yelling from the rooftops what to do.

351
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You gave me a gift that was so much greater, which was I will not answer your question

352
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about picky eating

353
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because the question

354
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wasn't

355
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the answer to that question wasn't actually the answer I needed.

356
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And I couldn't see that and took me a long time to kind of figure that out,

357
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that what was missing was something more that my daughter needed to be nourished by.

358
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It wasn't about the food.

359
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And so what you did

360
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was you let me sit in my conflict.

361
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You let me sit in my frustration. You let me sit in my alarm,

362
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and you sure turned on my pursuit to try to figure out

363
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what the answer was.

364
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And it was then when I looked into the field, because I had these eyes that I realized

365
00:21:14.120 --> 00:21:17.020
something's come undone. I didn't know what it was,

366
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but I was

367
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distressed.

368
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And I didn't I couldn't grab the answers. Now why did I want the answers?

369
00:21:24.280 --> 00:21:27.100
Because I'm a mom. Mhmm. Because I'm a parent.

370
00:21:27.765 --> 00:21:30.185
Mhmm. Not because I wanted to write a book,

371
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because I need answers inside of the best way.

372
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And so it sent me on this voracious journey to try to look at the pieces that were there.

373
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But what I also came to realize is that the gift that you gave me

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was in letting me sit in that conflict.

375
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Is it gave birth to something that could only have been given birth to by that conflict?

376
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In finding the answers in me and finding the provider I needed to be, not only did I solve the food issue,

377
00:22:03.674 --> 00:22:09.535
but in the days like, she was three when that happened. I just sent her to university. She's 17.

378
00:22:10.330 --> 00:22:12.270
Oh. Right? And so

379
00:22:13.050 --> 00:22:17.630
the mother that she came to rely on or the mother that I needed

380
00:22:18.650 --> 00:22:20.670
in the hardest times with my kids

381
00:22:21.610 --> 00:22:25.630
was born from that conflict. Mhmm. And so the gift is so great

382
00:22:26.105 --> 00:22:28.285
when we are not told what to do,

383
00:22:29.145 --> 00:22:32.285
but when we have to discover it in ourselves. And so I think

384
00:22:32.585 --> 00:22:37.085
that is why I intuitively turn to so many stories in this in this book.

385
00:22:37.305 --> 00:22:42.309
It's the way you write the book. It is the way you write the book. You let us discover it ourselves.

386
00:22:42.530 --> 00:22:43.030
Yes.

387
00:22:43.490 --> 00:22:45.510
Because I I think I had

388
00:22:46.370 --> 00:22:50.865
because you believe that I have that in me and I could find my own story.

389
00:22:50.945 --> 00:22:53.925
It didn't it seemed disingenuous to write it any other way.

390
00:22:54.065 --> 00:23:00.725
There's an invitation there to find the provider in you, the provider me that had been lost, the provider me that was insecure,

391
00:23:01.105 --> 00:23:04.885
the provider me that didn't have all the answers and didn't realize I was the answer.

392
00:23:05.230 --> 00:23:06.509
And so I came back.

393
00:23:06.509 --> 00:23:13.409
Well, yeah, of course it was, it started with Gordon and the question he refused to answer and this hunger in me to have an answer.

394
00:23:13.549 --> 00:23:19.169
And of course the answer was so much bigger. It was about being a provider and a caretaker and how

395
00:23:19.565 --> 00:23:22.945
it's so easy to become detached from those caretaking instincts.

396
00:23:23.485 --> 00:23:27.505
We have been and we are and our culture pushes us in that direction.

397
00:23:27.645 --> 00:23:35.150
And every time, you know, you hear someone yelling and shouting directions to parents on what to do, it's just it's like, no.

398
00:23:35.150 --> 00:23:40.130
Please don't rob them of something that's gonna they're gonna need Yeah. Or when flight time.

399
00:23:40.670 --> 00:23:45.330
When food becomes the focus. Again, this idea, there's some things that need to be hidden.

400
00:23:45.790 --> 00:23:48.395
Our relational intentions need to be hidden.

401
00:23:48.395 --> 00:23:52.875
Our, you know, food was never meant to be the focus and it's become the focus.

402
00:23:52.875 --> 00:23:56.815
It is incredible focus. It it preoccupies our television or,

403
00:23:57.434 --> 00:23:59.774
you know, our books and but but

404
00:24:00.075 --> 00:24:05.390
the context is still hidden and needs to be revealed and then hidden again.

405
00:24:05.770 --> 00:24:09.850
So revealed to us and then hidden again to those that we love.

406
00:24:09.850 --> 00:24:13.130
So that that's a beautiful paradox of it. Yeah. It is.

407
00:24:13.130 --> 00:24:19.565
And and that's the second question I ask myself is, well, what did I what did I discover when I went into this?

408
00:24:19.945 --> 00:24:21.325
I discovered a mess.

409
00:24:21.945 --> 00:24:26.285
I discovered there's no coherent model of how we become an eater from a developmental

410
00:24:27.065 --> 00:24:29.805
view through attachment. There's nothing. It doesn't exist.

411
00:24:31.020 --> 00:24:35.180
That we have eating disorders over here. We've got celebrity chefs over here.

412
00:24:35.180 --> 00:24:40.620
We have research of gut stuff over here. We've got the myth that the table is somehow the answer.

413
00:24:40.620 --> 00:24:45.054
We all have to sit around. Well, you sit around a table with an alcoholic. It's not the answer.

414
00:24:45.115 --> 00:24:49.274
It never has been. The table is an incredibly wounding place as it could be a healing place.

415
00:24:49.274 --> 00:24:50.255
It's not the table.

416
00:24:50.955 --> 00:24:54.715
Maslow got it completely wrong. He said food was the most important.

417
00:24:54.715 --> 00:24:59.640
How many people still say Maslow food's the most important? It's like it's not. It hasn't been.

418
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:01.180
We've got it all upside down.

419
00:25:01.800 --> 00:25:05.420
It was like the good, the bad and the ugly. There's no culture.

420
00:25:06.360 --> 00:25:07.420
Things are fragmented.

421
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:10.060
You know, there was just so much information.

422
00:25:10.120 --> 00:25:14.815
I'm just like, how can you go to different sections and nothing is integrated?

423
00:25:15.355 --> 00:25:19.595
It was and I did That's chapter two, that that how Maslow got it wrong.

424
00:25:19.595 --> 00:25:22.495
And I think that that your your ability to

425
00:25:22.875 --> 00:25:23.375
to

426
00:25:23.835 --> 00:25:28.150
to upend it and then put it back in its proper place as it was done brilliantly.

427
00:25:28.770 --> 00:25:32.230
Well, thank you. It just it it was so fragmented. And it's

428
00:25:32.610 --> 00:25:36.150
it the integration that was required to sit in

429
00:25:36.770 --> 00:25:37.590
the conflict

430
00:25:38.130 --> 00:25:42.395
that things don't marry up. And it was very helpful to do presentations.

431
00:25:42.535 --> 00:25:45.755
It was very helpful to talk about it. It was very helpful,

432
00:25:46.215 --> 00:25:49.035
to look at it through the consultations I had with families,

433
00:25:49.415 --> 00:25:52.535
constantly trying to put the pieces together, put the pieces together.

434
00:25:52.535 --> 00:25:57.320
And when they fit, I'm like, ah, okay, let's pick apart picky eating.

435
00:25:57.320 --> 00:26:01.960
Let's pick apart the, let's pick apart the gut. And when they fit together, I had that piece.

436
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:05.160
I had that piece. I had that piece. And then they started to come together.

437
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:07.500
And I knew when I was done, when I had saturation,

438
00:26:08.044 --> 00:26:12.525
when I wasn't learning anymore and when I could take, oh, the celebrity chef.

439
00:26:12.525 --> 00:26:17.085
Oh, that's what that's about. Oh, hiding the food underneath the bed as a foster kid.

440
00:26:17.085 --> 00:26:20.385
That's what that's about. And I could say I had an explanatory

441
00:26:20.924 --> 00:26:22.145
model and construct

442
00:26:22.510 --> 00:26:25.650
and I had saturation. I'm like, I can use this

443
00:26:26.429 --> 00:26:28.210
to now solve problems.

444
00:26:28.510 --> 00:26:31.330
Mhmm. I can use this now to put back together

445
00:26:31.630 --> 00:26:33.970
what culture had always embedded invisibly

446
00:26:34.429 --> 00:26:39.695
that I you could catch a glimpse at some of the wisdom of that culture. And it really

447
00:26:40.494 --> 00:26:40.994
I

448
00:26:41.294 --> 00:26:46.115
I would say even more, like, I was going to as as the the prequel, not the sequel.

449
00:26:46.575 --> 00:26:52.195
If you get the dance of connection, caring, and food right, the rest will unfold.

450
00:26:52.900 --> 00:26:55.240
It really is. And the place of intervention,

451
00:26:55.620 --> 00:26:57.080
if something is wrong,

452
00:26:57.700 --> 00:27:02.740
the place of intervention, like, there's so many things that would, you know, you wanna teach and it just doesn't go in.

453
00:27:02.740 --> 00:27:05.960
Well, the place of intervention seem to be exactly

454
00:27:06.934 --> 00:27:11.895
where there is caring connection and food and to put those back together.

455
00:27:11.895 --> 00:27:14.075
So I I I I thought it was brilliant

456
00:27:14.695 --> 00:27:17.195
in the sense that it's probably the most usable

457
00:27:17.495 --> 00:27:26.310
parenting book I know, but it's also the most usable book, how to take care of your your loved ones, your you know, it it it probably

458
00:27:26.690 --> 00:27:29.590
it it it probably is a book to to

459
00:27:30.050 --> 00:27:31.030
enrich marriages,

460
00:27:31.730 --> 00:27:36.095
you know. It's it's it's a it's a book for all and for all seasons.

461
00:27:36.794 --> 00:27:41.115
Yeah. Well, that's that's a lovely way to look at it. It's I mean, it's just so central to life.

462
00:27:41.115 --> 00:27:42.255
Right? I mean Mhmm.

463
00:27:42.395 --> 00:27:47.220
And so, you know, I was always thinking of you in my head of distill, distill, distill.

464
00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:51.799
And there were times when I actually wanted to give up this project. It felt too big.

465
00:27:51.860 --> 00:27:56.580
It felt too much. It felt too overwhelming. I thought this is taking me years to do.

466
00:27:56.580 --> 00:27:58.039
It was ten years of

467
00:27:58.340 --> 00:27:58.840
research,

468
00:27:59.620 --> 00:28:02.600
many interviews, over 50, you know, interviews, surveys,

469
00:28:03.595 --> 00:28:08.174
presentations. It was an enormous amount of work. And that work didn't

470
00:28:08.715 --> 00:28:12.894
worry me. It was just the frustration of how how does it come together?

471
00:28:13.355 --> 00:28:15.615
Like when story going to come together?

472
00:28:16.300 --> 00:28:20.400
But it did distill and it did land it. And I think probably because I have

473
00:28:20.860 --> 00:28:27.680
you as a mentor and as a teacher, as a theorist who, you know, like it settles down eventually.

474
00:28:27.740 --> 00:28:32.765
It does distill if you're patient with it long enough. If you love it long enough, it does distill.

475
00:28:33.225 --> 00:28:40.685
And it distilled into three key things for me, which is one of the last lines of the book, which food serves us best when it serves our togetherness.

476
00:28:40.745 --> 00:28:43.005
If we hold that as a golden rule,

477
00:28:43.305 --> 00:28:44.205
as a sacred

478
00:28:44.745 --> 00:28:47.085
tenant, then that guides us.

479
00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:51.480
And then if we hold that food serves us best when it serves togetherness, then

480
00:28:51.940 --> 00:28:56.919
what falls out of that is that we must gather first and then eat. It's not eating together.

481
00:28:56.980 --> 00:29:01.159
It's we must gather. So what does gather mean? How do we make sense of gathering?

482
00:29:01.565 --> 00:29:06.545
And then what I thought was it gave me goosebumps when I saw it and it distilled the third.

483
00:29:06.684 --> 00:29:08.065
And I'm so excited

484
00:29:08.365 --> 00:29:08.865
about

485
00:29:09.405 --> 00:29:10.684
unpacking this further.

486
00:29:10.684 --> 00:29:20.830
And I think this is my this is one of the areas where I can be of use in the gifts that this work has been is that food cannot serve two masters at the same time.

487
00:29:21.290 --> 00:29:22.750
It cannot serve togetherness

488
00:29:23.850 --> 00:29:26.190
and emotional distress at the same time.

489
00:29:27.130 --> 00:29:31.470
If we can tease that apart and make sure that food is serving togetherness,

490
00:29:32.255 --> 00:29:35.315
then we're going to take care of the, how food

491
00:29:35.615 --> 00:29:40.895
takes that slide in, into where we have slipped so far into emotional distress.

492
00:29:40.895 --> 00:29:43.475
But if we understand that there's this precipice,

493
00:29:44.335 --> 00:29:46.675
if it's not in togetherness, it slides

494
00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:52.289
at the speed of light. It's the most available drug we have. You think about technology.

495
00:29:52.830 --> 00:29:55.570
I think this take gives technology a run for its money.

496
00:29:56.590 --> 00:29:57.649
And so

497
00:29:58.429 --> 00:29:58.929
that

498
00:29:59.485 --> 00:30:00.044
in unpacking

499
00:30:00.605 --> 00:30:06.784
And in that carries the seed of all understanding addiction as well. Exactly. That is a huge

500
00:30:07.325 --> 00:30:11.585
arena that unfolds everything else because food is our first addiction

501
00:30:12.445 --> 00:30:12.945
in,

502
00:30:13.565 --> 00:30:14.625
in in distress.

503
00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:15.720
You know?

504
00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:21.560
So those so those tenants coming back, and I was just it was just I was just in awe of how,

505
00:30:23.140 --> 00:30:26.680
you know, things can distill into things into

506
00:30:27.434 --> 00:30:29.115
simple understanding that can guide us.

507
00:30:29.115 --> 00:30:34.235
And I remember saying to you at one of the conferences, I can't believe, like, I feel silly saying this stuff.

508
00:30:34.235 --> 00:30:36.174
It seems like it's so self evident.

509
00:30:36.394 --> 00:30:39.674
And I remember your comment because I said, oh, you know, why am I doing this?

510
00:30:39.674 --> 00:30:41.855
Everybody kind of knows this. And you just said, Deborah,

511
00:30:42.550 --> 00:30:45.050
when you have distilled it to that level,

512
00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:51.530
it will feel like common sense. That's when you know you're done. And I thought, oh,

513
00:30:52.230 --> 00:30:53.690
okay. I guess. Yes.

514
00:30:54.070 --> 00:30:59.125
And so that was that was, reassuring. But that integration process, it was

515
00:30:59.505 --> 00:31:01.925
thrilling and daunting and incredibly frustrating.

516
00:31:03.105 --> 00:31:08.725
But I was glad that I had you as a sort of as a as a guide and a mentor for that that integration.

517
00:31:09.105 --> 00:31:09.905
I don't think

518
00:31:11.059 --> 00:31:18.200
I think some of the problems that we face today require much more integration and much more pieces of the puzzle that we're not patient enough to put together.

519
00:31:18.419 --> 00:31:26.840
We're so much in a hurry for quick fixes that we don't look for the the foundational insight of all the pieces that need to be integrated to solve these problems.

520
00:31:27.034 --> 00:31:30.075
We're in way too much of a hurry. And so it's there.

521
00:31:30.075 --> 00:31:33.054
If we can sit there and we can just sit in some of that conflict,

522
00:31:33.355 --> 00:31:37.274
we're gonna get there, but we have to we gotta slow down a little bit.

523
00:31:37.274 --> 00:31:45.090
I'm so glad you took you took the time because books are cranked out now, like, in terms of the writing takes on a life of its own rather than

524
00:31:45.390 --> 00:31:49.490
that there's the message and to to stay with it until the message

525
00:31:49.870 --> 00:31:51.890
sits down for you, till

526
00:31:52.495 --> 00:31:57.294
till it's understood from inside out and from every side possibly and outside in.

527
00:31:57.294 --> 00:32:03.875
And I'm so glad you you did take that time even though it may seem like it, but your contribution,

528
00:32:04.575 --> 00:32:07.235
Deborah, from taking that time in your life

529
00:32:07.600 --> 00:32:08.899
will be immense.

530
00:32:09.360 --> 00:32:10.580
It will be immense.

531
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:12.820
I I I think this

532
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:14.740
this has a possibility

533
00:32:15.600 --> 00:32:16.100
of,

534
00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:17.860
of

535
00:32:18.399 --> 00:32:26.655
of of truly changing lives because you you change it at the very core level, How you love, how you receive love, how you get care across,

536
00:32:27.195 --> 00:32:30.175
and how we use food which we do every day.

537
00:32:30.875 --> 00:32:33.995
Yeah. Well, thank you for that. Well, that would be the dream, isn't it?

538
00:32:33.995 --> 00:32:35.830
That, somehow it makes a difference, right?

539
00:32:35.830 --> 00:32:39.930
That's why I think writing is such an important medium because you can reach

540
00:32:40.390 --> 00:32:42.010
more people that way.

541
00:32:42.550 --> 00:32:46.790
And that leads to the third question I had, which is, you know, how am I using this now?

542
00:32:46.790 --> 00:32:48.650
How did it change what I do?

543
00:32:48.835 --> 00:32:57.735
And of course, the implications in my family and my understanding of my daughter and her sensitivity and where her resistance to trying food came from and how to use relationship,

544
00:32:58.835 --> 00:33:00.055
you know, to build,

545
00:33:01.270 --> 00:33:07.990
and to have a context that was friendly for eating and, and paying attention to rest and paying attention to people's stomachs.

546
00:33:07.990 --> 00:33:10.809
It's kind of it sounds weird, but it's kind of like a you can almost

547
00:33:11.190 --> 00:33:12.010
hear people's

548
00:33:13.685 --> 00:33:17.945
emotional distress around the table a little bit more. It's not like you can feel it,

549
00:33:18.485 --> 00:33:22.485
as they engage with their food or they, you know, move things around and what's on your mind.

550
00:33:22.485 --> 00:33:25.045
And I'm just such much, much more attuned to it.

551
00:33:25.045 --> 00:33:31.100
And I'm, I'm much more attuned to the the generosity and invitation around food and creating that kind of dependency.

552
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:34.460
You know, today or yesterday, actually, my daughter said,

553
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:36.520
I said, oh, let's go.

554
00:33:36.520 --> 00:33:43.055
I've been trying to she's close by for university, so I have a luxury of being able to pick her up and take her out and see her for fifteen minutes or whatever.

555
00:33:43.355 --> 00:33:46.635
But I said, do you want to come for dinner? No, I'm too busy. And then I'll come for a latte.

556
00:33:46.635 --> 00:33:51.135
And then I said, well, we're having sushi, which is her favorite. Oh, come on. Yes.

557
00:33:53.860 --> 00:33:58.660
And then today, I said, well, you know, if you're ever stressed, you know, I'm happy to get a latte with you.

558
00:33:58.660 --> 00:34:02.900
And she's like, okay. So she called me tonight. She had, like, 03:30, four o'clock.

559
00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:07.095
She's like, can we get a latte? And I'm like, sure. Lots of time. So we go down.

560
00:34:07.174 --> 00:34:08.875
And it's this sense of just this,

561
00:34:09.175 --> 00:34:13.195
you know, food becomes a camouflage to say, well, let me take a look. It's a camouflage.

562
00:34:13.655 --> 00:34:14.955
Yeah. It's a camouflage.

563
00:34:15.574 --> 00:34:17.514
And it's this invisible sort of,

564
00:34:17.815 --> 00:34:21.659
you don't have to pretend that you're coming home and that you need me. Let's just get a latte.

565
00:34:21.819 --> 00:34:25.920
And so, but it allows for this beautiful connection point. And it's just that invitation,

566
00:34:26.780 --> 00:34:33.520
for togetherness that, I'm just so much more aware of how food can become a medium for our relational intentions.

567
00:34:33.579 --> 00:34:34.559
And it's beautiful,

568
00:34:35.405 --> 00:34:41.105
symbolic and the symbolic nature of food. It's just, it's just so nourishing as a provider

569
00:34:41.405 --> 00:34:42.764
to be able to offer that.

570
00:34:42.764 --> 00:34:48.625
So that's really enriched my life and, and enriched my relationships with friends and gatherings and whatnot.

571
00:34:48.860 --> 00:34:57.760
It's also been, you know, personally just listening more to my body and my gut and like, oh, yeah, I can feel when things are stirred up, I can feel the loss of hunger.

572
00:34:58.060 --> 00:34:59.520
I can feel how

573
00:34:59.980 --> 00:35:04.400
emotional distress plays out a lot more in my body because I'm just much more

574
00:35:04.905 --> 00:35:06.345
aware or conscious. It's like,

575
00:35:09.385 --> 00:35:20.125
and lastly, which has been, which I've been doing for a while, the partly experimenting is just and telling this story and finding my way through the story is using it as a prototype or as a template

576
00:35:20.790 --> 00:35:23.350
to understand how relationships are enacted in the home.

577
00:35:23.350 --> 00:35:32.810
So asking my clients, my families that come in, for counseling, you know, what what is happening around food helped me understand because relational problems and food problems when

578
00:35:33.375 --> 00:35:36.175
can. Now, this is not to say that parents cause food problems.

579
00:35:36.175 --> 00:35:38.495
I think that's one of the greatest myths that's out there.

580
00:35:38.495 --> 00:35:47.635
You have a child in a very difficult, peer oriented classroom where the parent is doing everything they can, but that child comes home distressed because they go out into a world that is wounding.

581
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:51.460
That's nothing to do with the home. The home is then challenged to hold on to that child.

582
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:55.300
The problem with food is it's like, well, it's something that parents always doing.

583
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.420
Not necessarily, actually, but it is their responsibility.

584
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:00.645
But how do we take the lead on it?

585
00:36:00.885 --> 00:36:09.945
So asking about food, while it might seem like a medical question or a health question, it's actually a very powerful relational question.

586
00:36:10.565 --> 00:36:13.065
And it's also a very powerful

587
00:36:13.970 --> 00:36:14.470
way

588
00:36:14.770 --> 00:36:15.270
to

589
00:36:15.730 --> 00:36:25.510
find your dance with your child when it is so difficult, when they might be prorated, or we might have separation because of divorce or whatever it is, finding your dance,

590
00:36:26.175 --> 00:36:29.635
feeling fulfilled that you can provide on this level. Like, it is a

591
00:36:30.015 --> 00:36:30.675
an intervention.

592
00:36:31.455 --> 00:36:36.195
Yes. Yes. That's been so powerful. And and it's a core intervention.

593
00:36:36.575 --> 00:36:39.455
Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's a core. Like, you wonder, you know, when

594
00:36:40.015 --> 00:36:42.240
it's it's it's not a peripheral one.

595
00:36:42.240 --> 00:36:46.740
It's it's it's actually at a place where the greatest difference can be made.

596
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:48.980
And the greatest, you know,

597
00:36:50.240 --> 00:36:50.480
the

598
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:52.340
and

599
00:36:52.720 --> 00:36:55.780
and it's a universal. It's core and it's universal.

600
00:36:58.025 --> 00:37:01.484
And and so when you understand that there, the the dance

601
00:37:01.865 --> 00:37:02.924
begins to

602
00:37:03.704 --> 00:37:04.204
to

603
00:37:07.144 --> 00:37:09.144
to feed into all the other areas.

604
00:37:09.305 --> 00:37:12.650
There's another word besides and we're talking about food and it's on my mind now.

605
00:37:12.650 --> 00:37:15.630
So I there was another word I was looking for, but,

606
00:37:16.410 --> 00:37:16.910
yeah.

607
00:37:17.290 --> 00:37:19.150
Yeah. It becomes such a powerful

608
00:37:19.850 --> 00:37:20.350
picture

609
00:37:21.450 --> 00:37:23.130
that you can just step back and look at.

610
00:37:23.130 --> 00:37:29.655
And and some of the stories that are are my favorite in the book are the stories from counseling, from

611
00:37:30.435 --> 00:37:30.935
Pokemon

612
00:37:31.555 --> 00:37:32.375
cards. And,

613
00:37:33.075 --> 00:37:38.295
you know, there's worry bugs in my tummy and just I wouldn't have understood

614
00:37:38.675 --> 00:37:43.760
the meaning of those stories unless I'd been doing this research. And so when you see

615
00:37:44.300 --> 00:37:45.920
that, it's just like, this is incredible.

616
00:37:46.540 --> 00:37:47.840
What instinct and emotion or comes

617
00:37:48.860 --> 00:37:49.600
to human

618
00:37:49.900 --> 00:37:50.400
relationships

619
00:37:50.940 --> 00:37:54.320
as enacted and told through food. So that was that was incredible.

620
00:37:55.420 --> 00:38:00.895
The fourth question I asked myself was, how has this changed me? How has this book changed me?

621
00:38:00.895 --> 00:38:02.515
Because I'm not the same person.

622
00:38:04.095 --> 00:38:06.435
I mean, I'm just not the same person. And

623
00:38:06.735 --> 00:38:07.555
and I think,

624
00:38:08.175 --> 00:38:09.075
as you said,

625
00:38:09.695 --> 00:38:14.140
play matchmaker to nature, that was that was just something that grew.

626
00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:17.900
I think out of your very, very first premise of,

627
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.779
you know, being very inspired by,

628
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:24.779
the indigenous work and teachings of Robin Wall Kimmer and Braiding Sweetgrass.

629
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:28.705
That book really moved me in a very powerful way

630
00:38:29.005 --> 00:38:31.905
where she asks if plants are gifts

631
00:38:32.925 --> 00:38:33.745
from nature.

632
00:38:34.285 --> 00:38:36.545
Right? Then what then is a gift?

633
00:38:36.925 --> 00:38:40.785
And nature is loving us into existence, too. And so,

634
00:38:41.140 --> 00:38:46.040
you know, it made me think about how we are social species and we think about the human connection.

635
00:38:46.580 --> 00:38:51.640
But one of the things that was the greatest gift in this book is that all living things are my relational

636
00:38:52.660 --> 00:38:57.345
connections, like all living. That's what in the last chapter that allowed me to see,

637
00:38:57.964 --> 00:39:06.224
you know, and challenge myself and challenge readers to say, no, we don't look at ourselves as relational creatures in the truest of sense.

638
00:39:06.525 --> 00:39:08.850
We have connections to our land and our terroir.

639
00:39:08.850 --> 00:39:12.230
We have connections to our ancestors and our way back people.

640
00:39:12.610 --> 00:39:14.470
We have a connection to our culture.

641
00:39:15.090 --> 00:39:16.690
We have a connection to our body.

642
00:39:16.690 --> 00:39:21.510
We have a connection to other people, but if you truly wanna see yourself as a relational creature,

643
00:39:21.815 --> 00:39:23.975
you must go beyond the human species.

644
00:39:23.975 --> 00:39:27.995
You must go to our animal and our plant creatures, and you must see them

645
00:39:28.375 --> 00:39:33.275
as part of you and you part of them. You know, watching a show where

646
00:39:33.940 --> 00:39:34.680
they, you know,

647
00:39:35.700 --> 00:39:38.440
food practices on TV, and I'm like, stop.

648
00:39:38.980 --> 00:39:41.080
There's no sacredness. There's no

649
00:39:41.540 --> 00:39:46.360
honoring of that life. I'm just like, it's me saying this. My dad was a meat salesman.

650
00:39:46.420 --> 00:39:52.045
I worked in a a meat packing plant. Like, you have to understand how far

651
00:39:52.345 --> 00:39:52.845
this

652
00:39:53.145 --> 00:39:54.365
trajectory came

653
00:39:54.825 --> 00:39:56.045
because I understood

654
00:39:56.505 --> 00:39:59.245
that food was a gift given to us by nature.

655
00:39:59.305 --> 00:40:03.140
Therefore, we are connected, and we must live in relationship,

656
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:05.120
to these gifts.

657
00:40:05.120 --> 00:40:13.220
And so I I love that construct and that that book and the way you do it from the first chapter right through to the end of the communal table

658
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:15.975
that you unfold that so

659
00:40:16.855 --> 00:40:17.515
so meaningfully,

660
00:40:19.015 --> 00:40:21.035
and illustrate it so wonderfully.

661
00:40:21.655 --> 00:40:25.275
That that is a that's an incredible take home,

662
00:40:25.895 --> 00:40:26.875
from the book.

663
00:40:27.575 --> 00:40:29.115
Yeah. Thank you. It it

664
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.780
it, I didn't see it coming,

665
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:37.280
but eating is so much of a relational act. We're not it's not a nutritional act.

666
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:38.980
It's not food is not fuel.

667
00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:40.980
It has such relational,

668
00:40:42.915 --> 00:40:47.715
it is meant to anchor us into something much more deeper, and we just we need to see it again.

669
00:40:47.715 --> 00:40:54.195
It it did once upon a time, but we're so blind to how we become disconnected and and tethered from it.

670
00:40:54.195 --> 00:40:57.255
And there are many forces that don't want us to see that.

671
00:40:57.380 --> 00:41:01.560
Well, that's a double that's a double irony or paradox in a sense

672
00:41:01.940 --> 00:41:02.840
is that

673
00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:08.360
it was always meant to be hidden, this. It was always meant to be hidden. So because

674
00:41:08.740 --> 00:41:10.180
I I mean, it's it's

675
00:41:10.505 --> 00:41:12.665
counter will around food is one of the worst things.

676
00:41:12.665 --> 00:41:15.565
As soon as you make it to focus, as soon as you say you must,

677
00:41:15.865 --> 00:41:20.285
you bring forth this counter will. Nothing works directly. The same thing with relational.

678
00:41:21.305 --> 00:41:25.965
You know, you must be receptive to my care is the worst thing you could ever say to someone.

679
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:28.900
So the things about connection,

680
00:41:29.200 --> 00:41:30.099
about food,

681
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:33.140
and and about caring are invisible.

682
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:39.460
They they they must be invisible and so that's why they're ritualized is so that they the the

683
00:41:39.839 --> 00:41:42.885
attention can go to the ritual and and it can be invisible.

684
00:41:43.505 --> 00:41:44.005
But

685
00:41:44.625 --> 00:41:47.205
that's the the irony is is that

686
00:41:47.905 --> 00:41:53.445
is that then when it comes apart, you don't recognize that it comes apart because it was invisible on the first place.

687
00:41:53.665 --> 00:41:59.099
Right. And so it's out of you. And then when you write a book like this, like, it

688
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:02.619
it it's a kind of book, people. It's a kind of book that

689
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:06.220
when you read it, she writes it in such a way that you go,

690
00:42:07.240 --> 00:42:11.984
I think I think I always knew this, but I didn't know that I knew this.

691
00:42:11.984 --> 00:42:16.964
And like I often say in my presentation, you didn't know that this is probably the most important thing you could know.

692
00:42:17.025 --> 00:42:19.125
And so you need to bring it back to consciousness

693
00:42:19.905 --> 00:42:20.885
then to

694
00:42:21.265 --> 00:42:23.520
to bring it back into action and ritual

695
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:26.800
in your lives. And so that's a paradox of it.

696
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:31.300
It was when something goes missing that was invisible, like the relational context for parenting,

697
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:34.980
you you you don't recognize it. And

698
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:37.220
so there is this place of consciousness,

699
00:42:37.865 --> 00:42:40.045
but you can't just leave it at consciousness.

700
00:42:40.825 --> 00:42:44.125
It now now you gotta you gotta hide it again.

701
00:42:44.664 --> 00:42:45.724
Mhmm. Yeah.

702
00:42:46.184 --> 00:42:48.765
And that's yeah. And our if our intentions

703
00:42:49.065 --> 00:42:50.845
take the lead, then I think

704
00:42:51.180 --> 00:42:54.960
this is where it becomes hidden again. If we can find that intention

705
00:42:55.500 --> 00:42:57.040
to care and food becomes

706
00:42:57.980 --> 00:43:02.400
a tool in service of that caring, I think that we'll we'll be able to hide it.

707
00:43:02.460 --> 00:43:04.859
But that's really the challenge that I'm left with.

708
00:43:04.859 --> 00:43:08.434
The fifth question is what what remains the challenge for me

709
00:43:08.815 --> 00:43:10.194
in taking this

710
00:43:10.734 --> 00:43:15.954
message, this gift of a story that was given to me for my own struggles that found me.

711
00:43:17.615 --> 00:43:18.115
And

712
00:43:18.930 --> 00:43:21.829
I spent years trying to figure out what is my

713
00:43:22.130 --> 00:43:24.630
challenge going forward. And part of it is that

714
00:43:26.050 --> 00:43:27.829
we don't know what we're missing.

715
00:43:28.050 --> 00:43:33.410
And I'm trying to to tell a story about what we're missing when people don't know that there's a problem.

716
00:43:33.410 --> 00:43:35.795
Like, when it's people would say, what are you writing about?

717
00:43:37.055 --> 00:43:40.974
I'm writing about, are you writing about, oh, picky eating? I'm like, no, I'm not. I am.

718
00:43:40.974 --> 00:43:46.415
It's chapter five, but I'm not picky eating divorced and orphaned from any developmental understanding.

719
00:43:46.415 --> 00:43:49.740
So yes, I am. But not like And they say, okay, oh, you're ready.

720
00:43:49.740 --> 00:43:53.980
Like people say, well, oh, I thought it was a book about food. It's not about food. I'm like, yes.

721
00:43:53.980 --> 00:43:57.680
No, it's not about food. I thought it was about healthy eating and nutrition.

722
00:43:57.740 --> 00:43:59.920
No, it's actually not about that either.

723
00:44:00.234 --> 00:44:04.075
And then people are like scratching their head. Okay. Well, then I have to cook every meal. No.

724
00:44:04.075 --> 00:44:08.474
Actually, I don't say that either. And I have to eat together. No. I'm not saying that that either.

725
00:44:08.474 --> 00:44:14.700
And then some people will say, well, the early readers, well, I thought I actually knew what this book was about.

726
00:44:14.700 --> 00:44:19.900
I thought I already knew this stuff about food because I, you know, I do a lot of stuff with food as a mom, but I didn't actually know it.

727
00:44:19.900 --> 00:44:31.255
And so it's just this and even trying to name the book, even trying to do a description of it, everything has been this I've been trying to put my fingers on what the challenge is, and it is because

728
00:44:32.275 --> 00:44:34.694
if you have a temper tantrum, you know the problem.

729
00:44:34.994 --> 00:44:37.575
If you have a child who has anxiety, you know the problem.

730
00:44:38.035 --> 00:44:38.855
But we,

731
00:44:40.370 --> 00:44:46.390
everybody in North America has some sort of food related issue, the experts told me. Mhmm.

732
00:44:46.450 --> 00:44:47.350
Eating disorders

733
00:44:47.650 --> 00:44:52.305
are the second leading cause of fatality in the world behind opioid use.

734
00:44:53.265 --> 00:44:53.765
We

735
00:44:54.065 --> 00:44:55.285
don't even

736
00:44:55.744 --> 00:45:01.765
know how much in trouble we are. And here I am trying to bring the story forward and saying,

737
00:45:02.065 --> 00:45:06.870
we're in trouble. Try not be too alarmed. I think I have some ways to think about it. But

738
00:45:07.430 --> 00:45:11.210
it's so hard to talk about it. And what I realized is,

739
00:45:11.670 --> 00:45:12.650
is the stories

740
00:45:13.030 --> 00:45:15.290
are what matter because the stories

741
00:45:16.310 --> 00:45:21.050
reveal the problem. They reveal the answer. They make it safe to land on something,

742
00:45:21.575 --> 00:45:25.175
and they give us the dignity and integrity to find our way through. So

743
00:45:25.575 --> 00:45:29.515
Yeah. I think I've learned my way through the the challenge with that.

744
00:45:29.655 --> 00:45:32.215
And and the book won't be so much a book that's

745
00:45:32.615 --> 00:45:34.155
that sells off the shelves.

746
00:45:34.695 --> 00:45:36.315
I believe it will be a book

747
00:45:36.780 --> 00:45:37.920
that that,

748
00:45:38.780 --> 00:45:39.680
that sells

749
00:45:40.140 --> 00:45:41.120
because it's shared

750
00:45:41.900 --> 00:45:44.800
of from caregiver to caregiver to caregiver.

751
00:45:45.580 --> 00:45:46.060
It's

752
00:45:46.380 --> 00:45:48.240
that's where it's going to come from.

753
00:45:49.260 --> 00:45:51.040
I hope so. I hope it's like

754
00:45:51.515 --> 00:45:54.815
my wish and my dream for it would be like it's a good recipe.

755
00:45:55.275 --> 00:46:01.115
And when you someone gets a taste of it, they're like, oh, and I have that recipe too. Yes.

756
00:46:01.115 --> 00:46:07.190
And you just pass it on. Yeah. Because that means that too want to infuse

757
00:46:07.810 --> 00:46:11.990
my food with love and my love with food and, you know,

758
00:46:12.850 --> 00:46:13.510
the connection

759
00:46:14.050 --> 00:46:14.550
and,

760
00:46:15.410 --> 00:46:17.670
all in the context of caring. Yes.

761
00:46:18.610 --> 00:46:19.110
Yeah.

762
00:46:19.695 --> 00:46:26.755
So it's been, you know, at the end of the day, I think it's been an incredible love story to have to be able

763
00:46:27.135 --> 00:46:31.075
every gift to tell. And in in so many ways, you know, that

764
00:46:31.615 --> 00:46:34.755
the me part that is in it in the book is

765
00:46:35.550 --> 00:46:36.530
really about

766
00:46:38.110 --> 00:46:40.290
the love and the attachment I've been

767
00:46:40.750 --> 00:46:41.250
given

768
00:46:41.710 --> 00:46:42.770
and restful and

769
00:46:43.630 --> 00:46:45.890
the love and attachment that wasn't there

770
00:46:46.190 --> 00:46:49.650
or in the places where separation was the hardest because

771
00:46:50.075 --> 00:46:51.214
you can't know,

772
00:46:51.515 --> 00:46:54.015
you know, as you always say, you can't know the deeper

773
00:46:54.474 --> 00:46:54.974
your

774
00:46:55.355 --> 00:46:58.335
separation loss, the greater the fruit is

775
00:46:58.875 --> 00:47:01.934
and the blessing that relationship is. And so

776
00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:06.460
that part of me that's in there is, is from that place

777
00:47:06.760 --> 00:47:14.540
of holding on to both of those and, and looking at food and relationship to that and integrating it of, of love and loss and how this

778
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:15.420
intertwines

779
00:47:16.404 --> 00:47:22.825
with that that wonderful love story that are are are stories of love and loss, really, I guess you could say.

780
00:47:23.125 --> 00:47:26.644
And and you're not finished with this project. Tell us about some of your plans.

781
00:47:26.644 --> 00:47:30.025
I hear there's a a course in the works and an intensive

782
00:47:30.404 --> 00:47:33.270
that that you Yeah. Yeah. Gather to eat course.

783
00:47:33.270 --> 00:47:37.530
So just looking at, okay, if, if we want to start to really look at

784
00:47:37.830 --> 00:47:41.370
how we embed this in our lives, in our own stories,

785
00:47:42.070 --> 00:47:44.250
what is it that we need to sit with? Because

786
00:47:44.550 --> 00:47:46.410
even though the book is 10 chapters,

787
00:47:48.275 --> 00:47:51.175
there is so much more to sit with and to look

788
00:47:51.715 --> 00:47:53.975
at. Oh, yes. Inside your own life.

789
00:47:54.915 --> 00:47:55.415
And

790
00:47:55.715 --> 00:47:58.615
the intensive next year for the Neufeld

791
00:47:58.995 --> 00:47:59.495
Institute

792
00:48:00.355 --> 00:48:01.655
intensive next year.

793
00:48:02.190 --> 00:48:08.190
It's been my dream as I was writing through this book to do an immersive experience where and I write about it.

794
00:48:08.190 --> 00:48:09.330
Some of my experiences

795
00:48:09.710 --> 00:48:22.875
in the book about where I sat in the place where food and connection came together and what happens when we sit in that place and we are inserted back into what nature meant to put together because it changes you from the inside out.

796
00:48:22.875 --> 00:48:26.095
So I think I'm really excited about I've got some

797
00:48:26.395 --> 00:48:26.895
good

798
00:48:27.355 --> 00:48:28.415
Literally and figuratively,

799
00:48:28.875 --> 00:48:32.930
literally figuratively. Back Together again. And so, you know, and,

800
00:48:33.390 --> 00:48:36.930
and bringing this lens, I feel really compelled to bring

801
00:48:37.870 --> 00:48:39.250
new insight and understanding

802
00:48:39.550 --> 00:48:40.210
of how

803
00:48:41.150 --> 00:48:42.770
an understanding of anorexia,

804
00:48:43.070 --> 00:48:43.570
ortho

805
00:48:44.350 --> 00:48:45.010
or anorexia,

806
00:48:45.615 --> 00:48:47.875
bulimia, people who are incredible,

807
00:48:48.815 --> 00:48:50.335
caretakers and healers in this,

808
00:48:51.695 --> 00:48:54.195
walking beside parents who've lost their children

809
00:48:54.655 --> 00:48:55.635
to these devastating

810
00:48:56.015 --> 00:49:00.700
disorders and how parents have got to be part of the answer and supported in that.

811
00:49:00.700 --> 00:49:01.980
So how do we take that,

812
00:49:02.380 --> 00:49:03.680
understanding and that lens

813
00:49:04.140 --> 00:49:07.119
into people who are doing such hard work to save

814
00:49:07.579 --> 00:49:08.240
our kids,

815
00:49:09.180 --> 00:49:10.079
from Yes.

816
00:49:11.565 --> 00:49:12.065
Yeah.

817
00:49:12.525 --> 00:49:14.944
It it would have a a revolutionary effect,

818
00:49:15.325 --> 00:49:15.984
this understanding

819
00:49:16.765 --> 00:49:20.944
on eating disorders. And like you say, it it is when you think

820
00:49:21.405 --> 00:49:22.464
of the degree

821
00:49:22.845 --> 00:49:23.984
of its affliction,

822
00:49:26.190 --> 00:49:27.330
and you're just talking,

823
00:49:27.790 --> 00:49:30.210
you know, in terms of those that are more recognized

824
00:49:30.830 --> 00:49:31.330
diagnostically,

825
00:49:31.870 --> 00:49:32.370
but,

826
00:49:33.230 --> 00:49:33.730
but

827
00:49:34.030 --> 00:49:34.930
the the

828
00:49:35.470 --> 00:49:37.570
the problem is incredibly widespread.

829
00:49:38.615 --> 00:49:39.115
Mhmm.

830
00:49:39.734 --> 00:49:40.234
Yeah.

831
00:49:41.174 --> 00:49:41.674
Yeah.

832
00:49:44.295 --> 00:49:49.035
Yeah. There's so much and I hope people will also take it and

833
00:49:50.670 --> 00:49:56.290
find their way with it and make it their own in the context of their work and lives and,

834
00:49:56.829 --> 00:49:59.410
and give birth to things from

835
00:49:59.950 --> 00:50:02.690
this insight. That's also my hope and my dream.

836
00:50:03.895 --> 00:50:08.555
That's what I appreciate, Deborah. It's just as Gordon was saying earlier, your way of

837
00:50:09.415 --> 00:50:12.315
of helping us step into that place,

838
00:50:12.855 --> 00:50:15.835
of stepping into that providing place. And I'm

839
00:50:16.215 --> 00:50:16.715
I'm

840
00:50:17.270 --> 00:50:20.890
I'm wearing today in honor of my grandmother. I'm wearing my apron

841
00:50:21.270 --> 00:50:24.230
that reminds me of my grandmother, and I was thinking about that today.

842
00:50:24.230 --> 00:50:30.150
I was actually eating it or wearing it while I was eating my meal, and I thought I'm gonna keep this on because it is that reminder.

843
00:50:30.150 --> 00:50:32.650
You know, my grandma was an amazing provider,

844
00:50:33.645 --> 00:50:34.145
and,

845
00:50:35.405 --> 00:50:36.465
and that's what I

846
00:50:36.845 --> 00:50:41.345
want to be. And it and and where you know, when I when I have this reminder

847
00:50:42.285 --> 00:50:43.025
of of,

848
00:50:43.805 --> 00:50:48.920
that I wear physically, it's just like it's like I'm not alone. I mean, you made that comment too.

849
00:50:48.920 --> 00:50:51.079
It's like even if I'm eating alone, I'm not alone.

850
00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:53.660
And and I don't think we were ever meant to eat alone.

851
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:56.940
We're meant to eat in the context of relationship.

852
00:50:57.319 --> 00:50:57.819
And,

853
00:50:59.415 --> 00:51:03.595
I just you know, there's so many pieces here. The the stories that

854
00:51:04.215 --> 00:51:09.595
just inspired my own stories that came to the surface as I read, as I'm sure all of you will experience

855
00:51:09.895 --> 00:51:10.395
and

856
00:51:10.695 --> 00:51:13.175
so many people typing in, well, how do I get the book?

857
00:51:13.175 --> 00:51:16.860
And I think we have some people talking about how you can get the book. But,

858
00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:21.340
yeah, it's it's just

859
00:51:22.600 --> 00:51:23.580
it's so

860
00:51:26.040 --> 00:51:29.340
so necessary right now, and it's sad that it's so necessary.

861
00:51:30.425 --> 00:51:32.325
But it is so necessary. And

862
00:51:32.865 --> 00:51:34.685
Mhmm. You know, and and I

863
00:51:35.785 --> 00:51:42.445
I know there's a little more to come here, but I just I wanted to bring in this particular question because I think it's it's timely here.

864
00:51:43.545 --> 00:51:49.620
And maybe I'll just preface it with a with a observation that I had made that I I think I shared with you, Deborah,

865
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:51.300
earlier in this process,

866
00:51:53.120 --> 00:51:54.100
was I remember

867
00:51:54.560 --> 00:51:58.420
back when the the tubes of food came in for infants.

868
00:51:59.395 --> 00:52:02.615
Mhmm. And I remember the feeling I had when

869
00:52:03.155 --> 00:52:04.455
I saw this advertisement

870
00:52:04.995 --> 00:52:07.015
that now babies can feed themselves.

871
00:52:08.035 --> 00:52:11.475
And there that's tubes that they could squeeze and feed themselves.

872
00:52:11.475 --> 00:52:14.550
And I just remember being you know, I didn't know maybe a lot back

873
00:52:15.190 --> 00:52:17.850
then about exactly what was wrong with that, but I knew intuitively,

874
00:52:18.910 --> 00:52:22.410
this is wrong. We've gone the wrong way with this. This is not okay.

875
00:52:23.430 --> 00:52:23.930
And,

876
00:52:24.630 --> 00:52:29.130
the question that came in is what is the impact of our construct of independence

877
00:52:30.234 --> 00:52:33.135
and the need to be autonomous in North American culture

878
00:52:33.515 --> 00:52:36.095
and letting children be in charge of their food?

879
00:52:36.755 --> 00:52:37.255
Mhmm.

880
00:52:37.915 --> 00:52:40.555
Well, I mean, yeah, it's you've got the answer there.

881
00:52:40.555 --> 00:52:45.640
It's it overturns the the sacred relations, the sacred warmth of dependency.

882
00:52:45.859 --> 00:52:51.160
And, and so if you overturn it around something so substantial to survival, like food,

883
00:52:51.859 --> 00:52:56.920
then, you know, you think about how that has repercussions in every other act of caretaking.

884
00:52:57.485 --> 00:53:01.585
If something so central to our survival and so close to attachment

885
00:53:02.125 --> 00:53:03.665
is put into their hands,

886
00:53:04.285 --> 00:53:07.185
we have broken a sacred connection. Yes.

887
00:53:07.485 --> 00:53:15.760
And you know, the tubes of food you could argue from, you know, a medical and a nutritional model that, you know, and what's the tube and the plastic and what is

888
00:53:16.060 --> 00:53:18.880
it? But what gets eclipsed is that

889
00:53:19.260 --> 00:53:20.880
the child is feeding themself.

890
00:53:21.500 --> 00:53:23.600
And yes, they can. But what is lost

891
00:53:24.315 --> 00:53:25.935
when that child is

892
00:53:26.474 --> 00:53:28.095
in self serve,

893
00:53:28.635 --> 00:53:29.454
self sufficiency?

894
00:53:30.234 --> 00:53:34.335
And that was also the legacy of of Maslow as well. Right? Like

895
00:53:34.635 --> 00:53:37.760
his epitome of development was self actualization.

896
00:53:38.140 --> 00:53:41.920
That's right. You look into indigenous teachings. It was never self actualization.

897
00:53:42.060 --> 00:53:43.840
It was about your contribution

898
00:53:44.140 --> 00:53:45.760
as a self to your community.

899
00:53:46.060 --> 00:53:48.160
That was the end goal of maturation.

900
00:53:48.540 --> 00:53:51.600
Or embedded again as you bring out in cascading care.

901
00:53:52.045 --> 00:53:55.725
Right? This network of cascading care is where it is of

902
00:53:56.605 --> 00:53:57.105
Yeah.

903
00:53:57.725 --> 00:54:01.345
So I think that, yes, the cultural values in North America

904
00:54:01.725 --> 00:54:02.545
around independence,

905
00:54:03.325 --> 00:54:06.609
how could it not infiltrate our understanding of food?

906
00:54:06.609 --> 00:54:09.750
How could it not be profit for food marketers?

907
00:54:10.130 --> 00:54:15.430
How could it not turn into an industry all on its own to save time,

908
00:54:16.050 --> 00:54:19.510
a strapped parents? How could it not be offered as the cure

909
00:54:19.955 --> 00:54:21.875
to the problems that parents face?

910
00:54:21.875 --> 00:54:29.415
You know, one of the people I interviewed said, you know, this is not the most time efficient thing that you can do to make a meal every night for your family,

911
00:54:29.955 --> 00:54:31.975
but some things must not be convenient.

912
00:54:32.859 --> 00:54:37.660
And so this is why this must this dance. And I'm not saying you have to home cook everything.

913
00:54:37.660 --> 00:54:39.839
My goodness. I tried that as an experiment

914
00:54:40.140 --> 00:54:44.700
of cooking everything. All I did was I was in the kitchen from breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

915
00:54:44.700 --> 00:54:45.839
I'm like, I I can't

916
00:54:46.244 --> 00:54:48.505
work if I did all of this. I need to find

917
00:54:48.805 --> 00:54:52.025
some ways to to help with this and other people to help with,

918
00:54:52.404 --> 00:54:56.345
with feeding and caring here and and part of my partnership and my husband.

919
00:54:56.884 --> 00:55:06.580
So I'm not saying that, but there has to be a fundamental dance where we must be the provider or seen as the provider and masquerade as, you know, the provider in a generous way.

920
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:16.275
But the other challenges and if you travel around the world, we have an international audience here, is that the North American way of eating is being transplanted

921
00:55:16.575 --> 00:55:19.075
all around the world. And those beautiful food cultures,

922
00:55:20.175 --> 00:55:21.715
are now being impacted

923
00:55:22.015 --> 00:55:23.955
by the North American food culture.

924
00:55:24.255 --> 00:55:27.075
I saw that in Italy when I went where we hold Italy,

925
00:55:27.455 --> 00:55:27.955
France

926
00:55:28.655 --> 00:55:32.630
and places that we exonerate as having they are all threatened.

927
00:55:32.630 --> 00:55:34.650
Their food cultures have all been threatened.

928
00:55:34.790 --> 00:55:39.690
The Japanese have moved to the United Nations to preserve their cultural

929
00:55:40.230 --> 00:55:42.823
food practices, enshrined in the United Nations doctrine.

930
00:55:42.823 --> 00:55:43.940
Our traditional food cultures are struggling to hold on to their sense of,

931
00:55:45.135 --> 00:55:45.635
spreading

932
00:55:47.160 --> 00:55:47.660
through

933
00:55:49.185 --> 00:55:49.685
the

934
00:55:51.210 --> 00:55:51.710
world

935
00:55:53.235 --> 00:55:53.735
for

936
00:55:55.260 --> 00:55:55.760
self.

937
00:55:57.285 --> 00:55:57.785
The

938
00:55:59.870 --> 00:56:03.410
spreading through the world for, self care. The industrialization

939
00:56:04.030 --> 00:56:05.390
of of of this,

940
00:56:06.030 --> 00:56:07.570
to allow for self feeding

941
00:56:08.590 --> 00:56:09.490
and Self efficiency,

942
00:56:09.870 --> 00:56:10.690
self resilience.

943
00:56:12.165 --> 00:56:17.205
Faster, sooner, better means more equipped, means older, more mature. So Gotcha. No.

944
00:56:17.205 --> 00:56:19.385
It's it's devastating. It's devastating.

945
00:56:20.965 --> 00:56:24.805
Well, that was one of the questions was what did you observed in other cultures.

946
00:56:24.805 --> 00:56:27.530
And is this just in North America or is it not?

947
00:56:27.530 --> 00:56:30.670
And I think you just answered that question quite clearly and sadly.

948
00:56:32.970 --> 00:56:37.310
So what's the answer? The answer is culture can't save us for this, but consciousness

949
00:56:37.610 --> 00:56:42.755
of what culture Yes. Department to deliver will bring it back and we can become conscious.

950
00:56:42.974 --> 00:56:48.115
And then once we become conscious, we can bury it again and just put it into our practices and then kinda

951
00:56:48.494 --> 00:56:51.954
forget about it. Ritualize it. Bury it in a ritual.

952
00:56:52.255 --> 00:56:52.655
And,

953
00:56:53.055 --> 00:56:53.555
yeah.

954
00:56:55.170 --> 00:56:55.670
Yeah.

955
00:56:56.609 --> 00:57:00.150
And we need we need a lot of rituals these days to bury things.

956
00:57:01.970 --> 00:57:02.630
And Mhmm.

957
00:57:02.930 --> 00:57:06.550
But food can be so ritualized too. Right? Mhmm. The

958
00:57:07.244 --> 00:57:12.785
our body and seasons, there's so much to hang on to with those things,

959
00:57:13.085 --> 00:57:13.825
with food.

960
00:57:16.285 --> 00:57:16.785
Yeah.

961
00:57:17.805 --> 00:57:20.944
Yeah. There's another question around breastfeeding and how,

962
00:57:22.750 --> 00:57:30.530
you know, that comment from someone who's practicing who who practices in that area and just seeing the changes that have happened over time

963
00:57:30.990 --> 00:57:34.370
and how really it is a it is a an issue of relationship

964
00:57:35.275 --> 00:57:36.815
and not just food,

965
00:57:37.275 --> 00:57:38.875
not not an isolated issue.

966
00:57:38.875 --> 00:57:44.895
And and she's just wondering how, you know, whether how you do you go into the breastfeeding

967
00:57:45.595 --> 00:57:46.895
in terms of the book

968
00:57:47.275 --> 00:57:49.135
and how it sets the tone in relationships?

969
00:57:50.200 --> 00:57:50.700
Yeah.

970
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:56.540
I tried very carefully to be thoughtful about breastfeeding. And in fact, I had spoken to one

971
00:57:56.920 --> 00:58:01.100
mother who writes a lot of poetry. Actually, I'd met her through social media to share her story,

972
00:58:01.720 --> 00:58:03.740
and gave me permission to share her story.

973
00:58:04.575 --> 00:58:06.595
Jess Uralik from New Zealand,

974
00:58:06.895 --> 00:58:10.994
about what it was like for her as a mother when breastfeeding

975
00:58:11.455 --> 00:58:12.275
didn't happen.

976
00:58:12.815 --> 00:58:15.955
Not because she didn't try, but because, you know,

977
00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:20.500
the pain, the infection, everything she tried over and over and over again.

978
00:58:21.120 --> 00:58:25.060
And we have a lot of material obviously about breastfeeding, breast is best.

979
00:58:25.120 --> 00:58:27.380
And I'm totally on board with that.

980
00:58:27.760 --> 00:58:30.660
What happens to the mother when it's not possible?

981
00:58:31.475 --> 00:58:33.095
And it's an interesting

982
00:58:33.395 --> 00:58:36.535
intersection to look at how food and relationship come together.

983
00:58:37.075 --> 00:58:39.175
What happens for the mother who

984
00:58:39.635 --> 00:58:42.295
wants to breastfeed and for whatever reason can't?

985
00:58:42.755 --> 00:58:45.415
The distress inside our new mothers

986
00:58:46.140 --> 00:58:47.119
around breastfeeding,

987
00:58:47.900 --> 00:58:48.960
I think stem

988
00:58:49.260 --> 00:58:49.760
from

989
00:58:50.220 --> 00:58:59.200
those provider instincts that are trying to come to the forefront, the very initial dance that we have with our infants and breastfeeding being the this point.

990
00:59:00.015 --> 00:59:00.515
And

991
00:59:01.214 --> 00:59:04.674
feeling like one of the things that you hear when you work with moms

992
00:59:05.055 --> 00:59:07.395
around breastfeeding is that sense of

993
00:59:07.934 --> 00:59:08.434
failure.

994
00:59:09.055 --> 00:59:16.500
I have let my child down or I feel ashamed because I don't wanna do this or using other source of formula or whatever it is.

995
00:59:17.200 --> 00:59:21.780
We don't listen on the level of those provider instincts and what

996
00:59:22.319 --> 00:59:29.460
this mother is feeling about fulfilling or not fulfilling or being ashamed around how these provider instincts are being realized.

997
00:59:30.165 --> 00:59:34.805
That I think is the most trickiest part of the breastfeeding. We have the mechanics of it.

998
00:59:34.805 --> 00:59:36.825
We have the health of it, nutrition of it.

999
00:59:37.125 --> 00:59:39.945
But do we look at the very ignition point?

1000
00:59:40.165 --> 00:59:44.185
That is the point when the body no longer just takes care of feeding the child unconsciously.

1001
00:59:44.810 --> 00:59:49.210
I don't know. I just ate food and my child was fed through umbilical cord.

1002
00:59:49.210 --> 00:59:52.910
What a beautiful relationship. It terrified me when I had to take responsibility.

1003
00:59:53.530 --> 00:59:57.790
Can I breastfeed? But it just wasn't about the milk. It wasn't about the nutrition. It was,

1004
00:59:58.935 --> 01:00:02.875
am I gonna get is this child gonna survive under my care?

1005
01:00:03.015 --> 01:00:06.395
Food is so alarming because it's so close to survival.

1006
01:00:07.095 --> 01:00:09.835
So breastfeeding is all about survival.

1007
01:00:10.160 --> 01:00:15.460
Is this child okay with me? Can I be the answer? Am I gonna be the provider this child needs?

1008
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:20.260
It is it is the ignition point for our unfolding.

1009
01:00:20.640 --> 01:00:23.140
And if you get a challenge here,

1010
01:00:23.964 --> 01:00:25.585
these moms need support.

1011
01:00:25.645 --> 01:00:31.345
Whatever the answer is to food here, these moms need to know that you are tied together

1012
01:00:32.125 --> 01:00:35.345
way beyond breast milk. It's a beautiful dance,

1013
01:00:36.365 --> 01:00:37.665
but your sight,

1014
01:00:38.340 --> 01:00:39.080
your smell,

1015
01:00:39.860 --> 01:00:40.360
your

1016
01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:42.040
touch, your warmth,

1017
01:00:42.660 --> 01:00:43.320
your invitation,

1018
01:00:44.420 --> 01:00:45.080
the generosity

1019
01:00:47.460 --> 01:00:50.440
around food, this is a long dance.

1020
01:00:51.585 --> 01:00:52.725
Just hold on.

1021
01:00:53.745 --> 01:00:55.765
Hold on. It's okay.

1022
01:00:56.225 --> 01:00:58.145
You're still the parent they need.

1023
01:00:58.145 --> 01:01:04.565
This doesn't this doesn't mean anything more than we've got your first problem you gotta solve.

1024
01:01:04.890 --> 01:01:05.630
And trust

1025
01:01:06.010 --> 01:01:07.289
me, there's gonna be more.

1026
01:01:07.289 --> 01:01:13.069
So how you figure this out, how you come to peace with this, how you find the graciousness for yourself as a parent,

1027
01:01:13.609 --> 01:01:15.869
you will need to carry that on with you

1028
01:01:16.650 --> 01:01:19.150
from here on out. It's it's the initiation,

1029
01:01:19.775 --> 01:01:22.035
and that's why this breastfeeding is

1030
01:01:22.735 --> 01:01:23.235
so

1031
01:01:24.175 --> 01:01:26.755
is so laden. It's because it's the initiation

1032
01:01:27.135 --> 01:01:28.115
and the ignition

1033
01:01:28.575 --> 01:01:31.155
of these powerful emotions and instincts,

1034
01:01:31.455 --> 01:01:33.790
and we just go crazy with this conversation.

1035
01:01:34.170 --> 01:01:36.109
But you say it too can be divorced

1036
01:01:36.410 --> 01:01:40.349
from the relational context, from the bigger picture of being the answer

1037
01:01:40.970 --> 01:01:42.010
and of,

1038
01:01:42.490 --> 01:01:44.270
of of being the source,

1039
01:01:44.890 --> 01:01:46.349
to nurture. Yeah.

1040
01:01:46.845 --> 01:01:47.345
Yeah.

1041
01:01:50.045 --> 01:01:50.545
Yeah.

1042
01:01:51.805 --> 01:01:59.505
So it's, anybody who's walking beside parents in feeding issues, you know, how do we keep our ear for the relational lens,

1043
01:01:59.940 --> 01:02:03.720
not just focus on outcomes and not just focus on nutrition,

1044
01:02:04.180 --> 01:02:10.119
but how do we support that parent, which is very much where I was with you, Gordon, when I came and I said,

1045
01:02:10.420 --> 01:02:14.040
I'm creating a relationship problem. My daughter, I'm worried about nutrition.

1046
01:02:15.075 --> 01:02:21.315
I was doubting in my capacity. And that is a much more dangerous precipice for that child. Yes. Yes.

1047
01:02:21.315 --> 01:02:24.455
Anything else. Because if a parent loses face,

1048
01:02:25.395 --> 01:02:26.375
the faith in themselves.

1049
01:02:26.915 --> 01:02:29.715
Yes. We got to deliver a parent to that child.

1050
01:02:29.715 --> 01:02:36.110
And so food and walking beside food, very much like sleep issues, we've got to be very thoughtful about relationship.

1051
01:02:36.410 --> 01:02:42.510
But I don't hear that. I hear when I talk to dieticians, nutritionists, I heard them yearning

1052
01:02:43.015 --> 01:02:45.595
for a relational understanding around food.

1053
01:02:45.895 --> 01:02:50.234
I hear it and I feel in my office that I'm talking about something other than food,

1054
01:02:50.615 --> 01:02:53.675
but I just don't have the words or a lens or

1055
01:02:53.975 --> 01:02:55.915
a framework. I hear it,

1056
01:02:56.609 --> 01:03:00.990
you know, but I don't quite know what I'm looking at and how to work with this.

1057
01:03:01.130 --> 01:03:11.230
I heard that over and over and over again for people who are walking beside parents around nutrition, diet, you know, diet issues or special needs issues with kids, with allergies,

1058
01:03:12.245 --> 01:03:12.645
with,

1059
01:03:13.045 --> 01:03:17.945
you know, eating issues or genetic disorders around food. Like, there's a lot of parents.

1060
01:03:18.325 --> 01:03:19.785
There's a lot of parents

1061
01:03:20.405 --> 01:03:21.225
who struggle

1062
01:03:21.605 --> 01:03:22.345
with feeding,

1063
01:03:22.725 --> 01:03:25.705
and it's like a silent community that is

1064
01:03:26.640 --> 01:03:27.940
is almost afraid.

1065
01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:31.859
There is something about this connection with food and relationship,

1066
01:03:32.240 --> 01:03:33.059
the shame

1067
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:37.140
or something just so hard and difficult to touch.

1068
01:03:37.680 --> 01:03:42.734
Eating disorders were one of the most invisible problems in my counseling practice. Still are.

1069
01:03:43.835 --> 01:03:45.775
Still are. The shame,

1070
01:03:47.994 --> 01:03:48.734
the hiddenness

1071
01:03:49.115 --> 01:03:49.675
of it all.

1072
01:03:49.675 --> 01:03:56.790
And so when parents are struggling with eating issues, you know, how do we take a relational perspective to walk beside them and help them?

1073
01:03:57.030 --> 01:04:00.890
Because we will be alarmed. It's about survival. We will be frustrated.

1074
01:04:01.430 --> 01:04:02.970
There is that push to coerce.

1075
01:04:03.590 --> 01:04:08.070
There is a search for answers, you know, everywhere out there. What do I do? I camouflage the food.

1076
01:04:08.070 --> 01:04:13.575
How do I do this? You know? And so I can see how we very quickly lose our alpha dance around.

1077
01:04:14.194 --> 01:04:18.835
We it's very easy to lose our lose our provider dance around food. My goodness.

1078
01:04:18.835 --> 01:04:22.775
I you just almost wish that every new parent had that

1079
01:04:23.155 --> 01:04:23.655
sage,

1080
01:04:24.590 --> 01:04:32.450
you know, matriarch or patriarch or someone just over their shoulders just to guide them a little bit and say, just hang on, just try this and

1081
01:04:32.910 --> 01:04:36.930
just to walk beside them because it's daunting. It's daunting.

1082
01:04:37.464 --> 01:04:44.045
I I'm glad the clinician part of you disciplined yourself to write the book from the caretaker part of you

1083
01:04:44.744 --> 01:04:47.645
because I I felt like I I was

1084
01:04:48.184 --> 01:04:50.365
like, it could have been a book about eating disorders.

1085
01:04:50.425 --> 01:04:52.790
It could have been a book about, you know, picky eating.

1086
01:04:52.790 --> 01:04:55.990
It could have been a book about a lot of things, and maybe there's sequels here.

1087
01:04:55.990 --> 01:04:59.210
You know, maybe there's things where you go down there because you have a foundation.

1088
01:04:59.510 --> 01:05:03.530
But you made it a book that, like, felt like every single sentence,

1089
01:05:04.470 --> 01:05:05.210
you know,

1090
01:05:07.845 --> 01:05:12.025
related to me. Now I'm a teacher. I'm a clinician. I'm a therapist,

1091
01:05:13.285 --> 01:05:15.225
but what you brought alive

1092
01:05:15.845 --> 01:05:20.185
was as a father, as as as a husband, as

1093
01:05:20.930 --> 01:05:25.990
as a grandfather. That's what you you brought there is the essence of the caretaker

1094
01:05:26.530 --> 01:05:30.710
in it. And so I appreciate given that you had these

1095
01:05:31.170 --> 01:05:34.150
moments and these insights and that you could revolutionize

1096
01:05:35.655 --> 01:05:36.395
the industry

1097
01:05:36.855 --> 01:05:37.355
where,

1098
01:05:37.655 --> 01:05:39.035
you know, where

1099
01:05:39.495 --> 01:05:43.115
where food has, in a sense, become the problem,

1100
01:05:44.695 --> 01:05:45.595
that you

1101
01:05:45.975 --> 01:05:49.115
you, you stayed in the in the lane

1102
01:05:50.060 --> 01:05:52.560
where it was universally relatable.

1103
01:05:53.340 --> 01:05:59.100
And still, you have something to to to build on. Should you go in that direction to unfold this?

1104
01:05:59.100 --> 01:06:03.520
You know? Well, let me spell it out in this area. Let me spell it out in that area.

1105
01:06:03.900 --> 01:06:09.155
Mhmm. I appreciate that. It it it's so big. I have to share a funny story. My,

1106
01:06:10.355 --> 01:06:14.615
I got lost. You often say, Gord, you get lost down rabbit holes. Right? When you're

1107
01:06:15.395 --> 01:06:19.620
That's for sure. And I got lost in in rabbit holes. And one of them was the gut.

1108
01:06:19.700 --> 01:06:24.120
And I remember, like, I read book after book on microbes and the gut and

1109
01:06:24.500 --> 01:06:26.600
the second brain. And, like, it's fascinating,

1110
01:06:26.980 --> 01:06:28.040
like, how a neuroscientist,

1111
01:06:28.420 --> 01:06:32.580
you know, finds that we have a second brain. I'm just like, oh, this stuff is fascinating.

1112
01:06:32.580 --> 01:06:34.920
So I said I said at one point to my husband,

1113
01:06:35.395 --> 01:06:37.175
maybe I should have been a neurogastroenterologist.

1114
01:06:38.115 --> 01:06:40.295
Maybe in my next life, I'll come back. And he's like,

1115
01:06:41.235 --> 01:06:43.895
I just I'm just like, this is fascinating.

1116
01:06:44.435 --> 01:06:52.640
And then I remember my sister came over and it was in the summertime and I was trying to write the the chapter on gut feelings, which was probably one of the hardest chapters

1117
01:06:53.180 --> 01:06:58.240
to write because I got lost down microbes and gut feelings, all the amazing research.

1118
01:06:58.940 --> 01:06:59.440
And,

1119
01:06:59.980 --> 01:07:03.500
she came over and she said, so how's it going? I said, well, I'm struggling with this chapter.

1120
01:07:03.500 --> 01:07:05.360
And she said, well, tell me about it. So

1121
01:07:05.715 --> 01:07:06.615
I think I

1122
01:07:06.995 --> 01:07:10.375
talked this is probably not gonna be surprising. I talked for an hour about

1123
01:07:11.155 --> 01:07:11.655
God.

1124
01:07:12.275 --> 01:07:17.495
And she was so patient, but near the end, I could notice her eyes were kind of, like, glossy over.

1125
01:07:17.955 --> 01:07:18.775
And I said,

1126
01:07:19.119 --> 01:07:22.160
so what so what do you think? Like, should I start this story, this story, this story?

1127
01:07:22.160 --> 01:07:25.060
I I started that chapter three times with different stories.

1128
01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:29.540
I remember she just looked at me with a succinct sentence, and she says, Deb,

1129
01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:31.780
what you need to remember

1130
01:07:32.515 --> 01:07:36.055
is that we don't all need to know what you know.

1131
01:07:39.875 --> 01:07:40.375
Lovely.

1132
01:07:41.315 --> 01:07:46.135
Story that matters. I'm like Oh, that's how to start this job. Yeah. Right.

1133
01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:49.339
But We don't all need to know what you know.

1134
01:07:49.880 --> 01:07:53.500
I'm gonna have to remember that. I think that's a good thing to remember.

1135
01:07:54.520 --> 01:07:59.415
So it was just, oh, there's just so much beautiful material. Like, there's just so much

1136
01:07:59.895 --> 01:08:01.595
science and so much understanding,

1137
01:08:02.215 --> 01:08:06.715
but it all comes back to the same place again, doesn't it? Yeah. That's the same place.

1138
01:08:06.775 --> 01:08:10.315
And then that's the whole thing where this is the interface

1139
01:08:10.935 --> 01:08:16.120
of caring, connection, and feeding. Like, that's the interface. So that is the interface

1140
01:08:16.659 --> 01:08:18.580
where where it it,

1141
01:08:19.460 --> 01:08:20.359
it came apart.

1142
01:08:21.139 --> 01:08:21.639
And

1143
01:08:21.939 --> 01:08:26.585
so that that was your job is to bring it together, and you did you

1144
01:08:27.045 --> 01:08:28.665
did your job brilliantly.

1145
01:08:29.285 --> 01:08:30.825
And I'm so thankful

1146
01:08:31.765 --> 01:08:35.465
that it was a tremendous sacrifice of time.

1147
01:08:35.925 --> 01:08:40.745
Oh my goodness. The amount of time that you've invested in into this and

1148
01:08:41.180 --> 01:08:46.000
still hanging on to being, you know, your first priority of being a mother and

1149
01:08:46.780 --> 01:08:47.280
and,

1150
01:08:48.140 --> 01:08:52.560
you know, caretaker. So to talk about it and do it at the same time.

1151
01:08:53.100 --> 01:08:56.965
Beside there are some people that do want to know everything in your

1152
01:08:58.224 --> 01:09:01.604
brain. We'll have a little echo some comments coming in. Oh,

1153
01:09:02.145 --> 01:09:03.604
what do we wanna know?

1154
01:09:04.224 --> 01:09:09.665
Oh, it's just it's just, you know, and and just some people in this field to break new ground.

1155
01:09:09.665 --> 01:09:15.560
It's just it's it's a remarkable time to be alive and to see what science is putting on our doorstep.

1156
01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:28.564
But the challenges and, Gordon, you said this so beautifully in the forward, and I and I find my myself coming back to it, which is that science can take piece can take the pieces apart, but they forget to put them back together again.

1157
01:09:29.024 --> 01:09:33.264
And and that is the critical piece is that we just can't lose ourselves down there.

1158
01:09:33.264 --> 01:09:35.364
When I was writing that chapter of gut feelings

1159
01:09:35.665 --> 01:09:37.444
and I got to the end, I'm like,

1160
01:09:37.984 --> 01:09:39.685
I wrote all this, but, hey,

1161
01:09:40.420 --> 01:09:43.319
don't forget, we're wired up this way because

1162
01:09:44.659 --> 01:09:47.159
in math, this is what matters. Right? And so it's like,

1163
01:09:47.939 --> 01:09:49.000
don't lose

1164
01:09:49.380 --> 01:09:53.880
yourself in the details. The details we've never had so much, but

1165
01:09:54.675 --> 01:10:00.615
what's more important is what is how these things come together and reveal such a beautiful,

1166
01:10:01.395 --> 01:10:02.615
beautiful picture,

1167
01:10:03.395 --> 01:10:04.855
a huge love story

1168
01:10:05.155 --> 01:10:05.815
of this cascading care from generation to generation to generation.

1169
01:10:06.530 --> 01:10:09.510
Care from generation to generation to generation.

1170
01:10:10.050 --> 01:10:13.730
It's just beautiful. And our indigenous teachings have always known that. Right?

1171
01:10:13.730 --> 01:10:19.750
So I'm just And how nature loves us and how nature gives us a food and, you know, it just

1172
01:10:20.130 --> 01:10:24.785
oh, and how they want it to be in the, you know, in the connection. Yes.

1173
01:10:24.785 --> 01:10:27.525
It it is a beautiful love story. It really is.

1174
01:10:28.065 --> 01:10:30.405
The the book is a wonderful love story.

1175
01:10:32.705 --> 01:10:36.960
And one of the questions one of the questions that came in, and I I I,

1176
01:10:38.080 --> 01:10:40.900
was how would you know? How do you know when you've,

1177
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:45.860
can you give a sense of how you know when you've been that one to nourish? I

1178
01:10:46.640 --> 01:10:48.100
the way that you're describing

1179
01:10:48.640 --> 01:10:49.460
in the book.

1180
01:10:51.125 --> 01:10:54.265
Yeah. How would yeah. What would that what would that look like?

1181
01:10:55.364 --> 01:10:57.685
You know, I don't know that for each of us.

1182
01:10:57.685 --> 01:11:02.725
I just can tell you what it comes back down to for me, and I think that's it's a beautiful question.

1183
01:11:02.725 --> 01:11:04.505
I think it's a question to ask ourselves.

1184
01:11:05.570 --> 01:11:07.670
And when I feel most

1185
01:11:09.410 --> 01:11:09.910
discombobulated

1186
01:11:10.370 --> 01:11:13.510
as a caretaker, when I feel most stirred up,

1187
01:11:13.890 --> 01:11:14.210
I,

1188
01:11:15.250 --> 01:11:22.905
I come back to and I don't know, you know, when you're writing, you put things in, you don't quite know what it means, but you know it belongs there or somewhere.

1189
01:11:22.905 --> 01:11:28.925
Mhmm. And so I find out of anything that I wrote in the book, I come back to the very first.

1190
01:11:29.224 --> 01:11:31.945
And actually, I had it out here just in case it came up.

1191
01:11:31.945 --> 01:11:36.970
But I came I come back to this over and over again because it helps me find the provider again.

1192
01:11:36.970 --> 01:11:39.790
And when I know I'm in this place, I know that I'm nourishing

1193
01:11:40.170 --> 01:11:41.390
my loved ones. And it's,

1194
01:11:41.690 --> 01:11:49.105
it's in the part before you read this book, because I thought people needed a bit of a preamble that it was going to be about a lot of things they thought it was going to be.

1195
01:11:49.105 --> 01:11:54.225
And I didn't want them to waste their money if they were going to look for another Like, No, don't waste your money.

1196
01:11:54.225 --> 01:11:55.445
This is not your book.

1197
01:11:55.905 --> 01:11:57.445
But it's from Tara Moore.

1198
01:11:57.745 --> 01:11:58.650
She wrote about it,

1199
01:11:59.290 --> 01:12:03.770
called a poem called The Quiet Power, and she gave me permission to use it, which I'm grateful for.

1200
01:12:03.770 --> 01:12:09.390
And and and I come back to this over and over my head. I can I can hear myself reciting these lines?

1201
01:12:09.530 --> 01:12:12.030
And she said, I stopped designing and arguing

1202
01:12:12.409 --> 01:12:16.895
and sculpting a happy life. I didn't die. I didn't turn to dust.

1203
01:12:17.435 --> 01:12:24.335
Instead, I chopped vegetables and made a calm lake in me where the water was clear and sourced and still.

1204
01:12:24.795 --> 01:12:29.695
And when the loved ones and when the ones I loved came to it, I had something to give them.

1205
01:12:30.290 --> 01:12:35.510
And I just I come back to that place, and there's something about it. Let's go chop some vegetables.

1206
01:12:36.130 --> 01:12:37.910
Just go make some carrot muffins.

1207
01:12:38.610 --> 01:12:43.030
Just go do what you know you can do. And it's like it it

1208
01:12:43.585 --> 01:12:45.764
it it I can find myself again

1209
01:12:46.145 --> 01:12:47.844
in the provider position.

1210
01:12:48.304 --> 01:12:53.764
And from there, I can go forward. And what I know it's not do I know if I'm nourishing someone.

1211
01:12:53.824 --> 01:12:56.485
It's do I know if I'm in the provider position?

1212
01:12:57.025 --> 01:12:59.045
Because I know when I'm in that place,

1213
01:12:59.780 --> 01:13:00.840
it will be nourishing.

1214
01:13:01.380 --> 01:13:04.280
It will be nourishing. And what is nourishing to me

1215
01:13:04.820 --> 01:13:09.560
in my eyes may not be what my loved one needs. But if I am still

1216
01:13:10.420 --> 01:13:11.480
unable to

1217
01:13:12.345 --> 01:13:13.085
show up,

1218
01:13:13.864 --> 01:13:14.685
be present

1219
01:13:15.705 --> 01:13:18.364
Yeah. Be not preoccupied with my emotions,

1220
01:13:19.305 --> 01:13:20.605
then it will be nourishing.

1221
01:13:21.385 --> 01:13:22.525
It will be nourishing.

1222
01:13:22.985 --> 01:13:25.659
Well, I appreciate that, Deborah.

1223
01:13:25.659 --> 01:13:28.380
And I, again, it makes me think there was another question that came in.

1224
01:13:28.380 --> 01:13:32.780
You know, I don't love to cook. I'm not good at it. Does that mean I can't provide? You know?

1225
01:13:32.780 --> 01:13:35.179
And I it brought me back to when I was,

1226
01:13:35.980 --> 01:13:41.775
in in my early motherhood, and I really wasn't that great at cooking. And I I I,

1227
01:13:42.575 --> 01:13:43.295
I would go out.

1228
01:13:43.295 --> 01:13:49.395
My, you know, my idea was picking up the the, you know, the roasted chickens you can get at the grocery store.

1229
01:13:50.415 --> 01:13:57.010
And so that's what I would do is I'd pick up the, you know, the Safeway chicken, it was called, because we live just down the street from Safeway.

1230
01:13:57.010 --> 01:13:59.030
And so we picked up the Safeway chicken, and

1231
01:13:59.650 --> 01:14:04.755
and and my kids loved it. And I would you know, I'd put it out, and we'd have our little feast. And

1232
01:14:05.235 --> 01:14:10.675
and when I I moved to Vancouver Island, and I thought, oh, I'm gonna start making stuff myself, and I started making it.

1233
01:14:10.675 --> 01:14:12.275
I'm like, I'm gonna make my own chicken.

1234
01:14:12.275 --> 01:14:18.120
And, you know, when we and I did the whole roasted chicken thing, and they're like, it's okay, mom, but we really like the

1235
01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:20.700
chicken roast. We'll just get those.

1236
01:14:22.360 --> 01:14:22.860
But

1237
01:14:23.560 --> 01:14:29.720
I but it's that idea that, you know, they still felt nourished even if I was picking things up and providing.

1238
01:14:29.720 --> 01:14:34.915
It was the spirit of it. Right? The spirit of it that I was providing. We ate out a lot,

1239
01:14:35.295 --> 01:14:37.935
but we, you know, we always brought it in, and we did it together.

1240
01:14:37.935 --> 01:14:41.534
And we'd have our special, you know, New Year's dinner with sushi on the floor.

1241
01:14:41.534 --> 01:14:44.034
We'd have a picnic and you know?

1242
01:14:44.094 --> 01:14:51.550
And it and we I just but I knew I needed to step into that place even if I didn't have all the skills and

1243
01:14:51.850 --> 01:14:53.150
the all of those pieces.

1244
01:14:54.970 --> 01:14:55.470
Yeah.

1245
01:14:56.090 --> 01:14:58.485
Yeah. I love that. That was one of the questions that I grappled

1246
01:15:00.085 --> 01:15:01.545
realities of today's parents?

1247
01:15:02.405 --> 01:15:03.145
Time stretched.

1248
01:15:04.005 --> 01:15:06.264
We don't necessarily know how to cook. That hasn't

1249
01:15:06.565 --> 01:15:08.025
necessarily been passed down.

1250
01:15:08.165 --> 01:15:13.460
You know, I remember Jamie Oliver, one of the chefs, you know, well known chef, said I could never,

1251
01:15:14.239 --> 01:15:20.340
you know, sixty years ago, it would never fly to to write a cookbook about root vegetables like our ancestors.

1252
01:15:20.480 --> 01:15:25.495
What you're writing about, how to cook a squash, like everybody knew how to cook a squash Today, it's like, okay.

1253
01:15:25.495 --> 01:15:29.015
Well, what do I do with that squash? Right? And I would put myself in that category.

1254
01:15:29.015 --> 01:15:34.875
So we've lost some understanding here around how to cook, how to forage, how to do lots of stuff.

1255
01:15:35.255 --> 01:15:35.755
But

1256
01:15:36.375 --> 01:15:40.450
is is that is that essential? No, it's actually not essential.

1257
01:15:40.510 --> 01:15:46.290
What's essential is that we show up to try to take the lead around these things and we find them through.

1258
01:15:46.590 --> 01:15:48.270
And you saw that in COVID, right?

1259
01:15:48.270 --> 01:15:56.585
How many people returned to cooking and this whole sourdough thing and how this was a way of saving our sanity in a time of such separation.

1260
01:15:57.045 --> 01:16:01.145
We return to cooking, we return to fermentation, we turn to

1261
01:16:01.445 --> 01:16:05.065
some of our sacred and ancient knowledge of how we prepare food

1262
01:16:05.670 --> 01:16:06.410
for ourselves

1263
01:16:07.270 --> 01:16:09.930
and our loved ones. It's just so fascinating.

1264
01:16:10.310 --> 01:16:12.250
So the knowledge is there to access,

1265
01:16:13.350 --> 01:16:14.650
but it's not necessarily

1266
01:16:15.590 --> 01:16:20.250
required. We are time stretched. We can't solve that problem for parents. So I was thinking,

1267
01:16:20.550 --> 01:16:24.364
okay, if we're time stretch, where is it more important to put your time

1268
01:16:24.824 --> 01:16:26.605
in creating these elaborate meals,

1269
01:16:26.985 --> 01:16:32.425
or in eating together and gathering your loved ones and truly being together around it?

1270
01:16:32.425 --> 01:16:35.005
And of course, what the research clearly shows,

1271
01:16:35.610 --> 01:16:39.390
what's of more value, the food or the connection? Put the connection first.

1272
01:16:39.610 --> 01:16:41.790
Longevity is way more connected.

1273
01:16:42.090 --> 01:16:44.910
In all of the research I did, multiple research,

1274
01:16:45.530 --> 01:16:46.030
longitudinal

1275
01:16:46.570 --> 01:16:48.510
hundred year old research on longevity

1276
01:16:49.385 --> 01:16:54.844
over and over and over again. The single most predictive factor of longevity was human connection.

1277
01:16:56.265 --> 01:16:57.085
Not genetics,

1278
01:16:57.465 --> 01:16:58.205
not food.

1279
01:16:58.745 --> 01:16:59.805
Human connection.

1280
01:17:00.185 --> 01:17:04.364
So if we have to have a sacrificial play here, where's the sacrificial play?

1281
01:17:05.400 --> 01:17:05.900
Connection.

1282
01:17:06.600 --> 01:17:11.340
It's foundational. It's it's the root of the hierarchy of needs.

1283
01:17:11.719 --> 01:17:12.860
It's it's connection.

1284
01:17:13.800 --> 01:17:16.060
So I think that's the answer for time strapped

1285
01:17:16.615 --> 01:17:17.115
parents.

1286
01:17:18.135 --> 01:17:22.395
So, again, it's it's it's It's okay. Yes. Don't make the food to focus.

1287
01:17:22.855 --> 01:17:28.075
Allow it to come in with the relational, the connection that you have. That is where it is.

1288
01:17:28.135 --> 01:17:33.809
Let let the food come inside of that regardless of whether it comes from Safeway or not.

1289
01:17:34.349 --> 01:17:34.849
Exactly.

1290
01:17:35.389 --> 01:17:37.570
Just call it your chicken and call it a day.

1291
01:17:40.349 --> 01:17:40.849
Yeah.

1292
01:17:41.675 --> 01:17:41.835
Yeah.

1293
01:17:41.835 --> 01:17:50.495
I would think one of the one of the most beautiful I was just made me think of one of the most beautiful things at the beginning of COVID when, of course, we couldn't gather together and there was so much lost in that

1294
01:17:50.955 --> 01:17:51.775
was witnessing,

1295
01:17:52.555 --> 01:17:55.775
you know, this new thing. Zoom was a new thing at the time and

1296
01:17:56.280 --> 01:17:57.900
and it was a intergenerational

1297
01:17:59.160 --> 01:18:00.380
pierogi cooking,

1298
01:18:02.040 --> 01:18:04.780
with our family. And my daughter was taking

1299
01:18:05.160 --> 01:18:07.340
part of this and, you know, and her

1300
01:18:08.215 --> 01:18:12.395
aunt and her grandmother and her great, you know, great aunt. And there was all of these generations

1301
01:18:14.055 --> 01:18:17.675
that were on all making pierogis together. And I thought,

1302
01:18:18.375 --> 01:18:23.890
yeah, this is this is what we, you know, what we're missing right now. And and

1303
01:18:24.270 --> 01:18:25.250
what we're missing

1304
01:18:26.030 --> 01:18:26.530
culturally

1305
01:18:27.310 --> 01:18:27.810
is

1306
01:18:28.350 --> 01:18:36.370
those I mean, would be even better if they were all together, but the idea that that was what was how do we stay connected is to share this recipe, to share.

1307
01:18:36.515 --> 01:18:41.095
I remember feeling sometimes like I was cheating when I would look something up online because

1308
01:18:41.555 --> 01:18:50.435
those recipes I feel like it needs to be my grandmother's or at least my neighbors or someone that I'm connected to because otherwise it just feels like I'm cheating somehow.

1309
01:18:50.435 --> 01:18:51.095
You know?

1310
01:18:51.540 --> 01:18:52.040
And,

1311
01:18:53.219 --> 01:18:57.460
and and so those recipes are are just it it is about the connection.

1312
01:18:57.460 --> 01:19:01.639
It's about the food that was cooked. You know, when I look at my grandmother's

1313
01:19:02.420 --> 01:19:08.155
recipe, you know, when her writing there and you talk about that in your book and the meaning of that.

1314
01:19:08.155 --> 01:19:10.095
It's just so amazing.

1315
01:19:10.475 --> 01:19:11.695
And on that Deborah

1316
01:19:12.315 --> 01:19:16.715
what Deborah also does is is talk about the meaning of words. Yeah.

1317
01:19:16.715 --> 01:19:20.920
And it and the way you do that is just beautiful bringing it together.

1318
01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:24.300
Recipe is one of the ones that you That's what I was gonna say. Yeah.

1319
01:19:24.440 --> 01:19:28.280
One of the ones that you unpack for us along with many other words.

1320
01:19:28.280 --> 01:19:30.380
And I just love that because I love words,

1321
01:19:30.760 --> 01:19:37.285
and I just loved what you did with with with, with unpacking those words for us. Yeah.

1322
01:19:37.425 --> 01:19:44.565
And you brought you brought this idea of the recipe of what do we wanna hold on to, what do we wanna remember.

1323
01:19:44.945 --> 01:19:47.200
And you brought these kind of, like, gentle

1324
01:19:47.580 --> 01:19:51.920
reminders throughout the book of of the recipes for connection,

1325
01:19:52.220 --> 01:19:56.860
recipes for collecting, and and and in a way that goes beyond food.

1326
01:19:56.860 --> 01:20:00.800
And and, I thought that was just such a beautiful way of of,

1327
01:20:01.125 --> 01:20:02.665
you know, playing on that,

1328
01:20:03.045 --> 01:20:07.385
and what a recipe is. And of course, we're not gonna tell you because you have to now read the book.

1329
01:20:07.445 --> 01:20:08.585
Yeah. Exactly.

1330
01:20:09.045 --> 01:20:12.965
Well, but, yeah, I thought, you know, how do you I always thought about thank you for that.

1331
01:20:12.965 --> 01:20:16.505
And I thought about, you know, the play on words of laying the table

1332
01:20:16.960 --> 01:20:19.199
and how do you lay the table for connection, right?

1333
01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:23.139
It's not about the food, the cutlery, the, whatever we took all and stripped that all away.

1334
01:20:23.520 --> 01:20:26.719
And we tried to lay the table for connection. What would be our recipes?

1335
01:20:26.719 --> 01:20:30.844
If we came to the table with a recipe for connection, with a recipe for gathering?

1336
01:20:31.144 --> 01:20:41.005
And it was meant to be a bit of a gentle play of this idea that what we're holding onto these recipes for food, but that's secondary to incredible

1337
01:20:42.640 --> 01:20:43.940
recipes for production.

1338
01:20:44.240 --> 01:20:53.520
And I think one of the bright things that I took great it reminded me when you were speaking to me that I took great comfort in is that it doesn't actually matter.

1339
01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:55.060
What's profound is actually

1340
01:20:55.875 --> 01:20:56.775
your food

1341
01:20:57.554 --> 01:20:58.454
tastes better

1342
01:20:59.315 --> 01:21:00.215
when in connection.

1343
01:21:01.554 --> 01:21:03.414
Like, you talk about love being blind.

1344
01:21:03.715 --> 01:21:05.014
It applies to food.

1345
01:21:05.394 --> 01:21:07.255
And it's it's so remarkable

1346
01:21:08.100 --> 01:21:11.960
that we that our taste and our perception would actually change.

1347
01:21:12.500 --> 01:21:14.600
Our chemical sensing system changes

1348
01:21:15.139 --> 01:21:16.840
in the context of relationship,

1349
01:21:17.540 --> 01:21:19.880
and it becomes palatable. It's like,

1350
01:21:20.420 --> 01:21:20.920
oh,

1351
01:21:21.555 --> 01:21:25.395
oh, it's incredible. Nature had such a plan, has such a plan for us.

1352
01:21:25.395 --> 01:21:29.575
So it's okay if you're not a great cook. Don't worry. Just make sure you that connection.

1353
01:21:30.755 --> 01:21:32.295
You infuse it with love.

1354
01:21:34.195 --> 01:21:34.695
Exactly.

1355
01:21:36.010 --> 01:21:38.670
Yeah. Well, there's some there's a couple practical questions.

1356
01:21:39.929 --> 01:21:41.710
When will there be a book club?

1357
01:21:43.050 --> 01:21:48.350
That's a great idea. Let's It's a great idea. So out. Yeah. Stay tuned.

1358
01:21:49.290 --> 01:21:49.530
Well,

1359
01:21:50.195 --> 01:21:53.975
yeah, maybe there'll be something we can do through the Neufeld Institute that way. And,

1360
01:21:55.475 --> 01:21:58.995
will there be an audiobook? Or when will the audiobook be released? Yes.

1361
01:21:58.995 --> 01:22:05.255
Just trying to figure out that one and, finding I I I didn't I don't wanna do it through artificial intelligence.

1362
01:22:05.780 --> 01:22:06.280
I'm

1363
01:22:06.660 --> 01:22:09.800
promised that that would be a very quick way to do an audiobook, but

1364
01:22:10.420 --> 01:22:13.160
I don't feel comfortable with that. So I have to find

1365
01:22:13.700 --> 01:22:17.620
and get three days in a studio to be able to do it because I do want to read it.

1366
01:22:17.620 --> 01:22:19.560
So I do promise it's coming.

1367
01:22:20.980 --> 01:22:21.935
Yeah. And,

1368
01:22:23.435 --> 01:22:27.855
and Maria wants to know, will it be translated into German? I hope so.

1369
01:22:28.155 --> 01:22:30.895
Yes. Hope it will be translated into lots of languages.

1370
01:22:31.275 --> 01:22:32.815
Coming out in Ukrainian,

1371
01:22:33.435 --> 01:22:33.935
Polish

1372
01:22:34.369 --> 01:22:34.690
and,

1373
01:22:35.170 --> 01:22:37.409
Danish, I believe, have the the rights of

1374
01:22:38.010 --> 01:22:38.770
Yeah. So

1375
01:22:40.210 --> 01:22:41.030
Okay. Yeah.

1376
01:22:41.730 --> 01:22:46.770
Yeah. So Marie might have a contact for you. She's got resources, that woman. Sure. She does. Yeah.

1377
01:22:46.770 --> 01:22:48.070
Thank you. For you.

1378
01:22:49.485 --> 01:22:51.025
Yeah. Well and I it just

1379
01:22:51.725 --> 01:22:59.985
maybe just before we end, and I know you might have some last words, but I'll just say just a few resources because I know the three of us are going into,

1380
01:23:01.570 --> 01:23:04.390
to doing a series on the wisdom of dependence.

1381
01:23:04.610 --> 01:23:10.450
And this is a very, you know, apt topic when it comes to food and the wisdom of dependence.

1382
01:23:10.450 --> 01:23:13.830
So we're excited about that. That's gonna be Wednesdays in October.

1383
01:23:14.585 --> 01:23:17.465
And for anyone that is interested in that and to,

1384
01:23:18.185 --> 01:23:20.764
you know, I think we'll we'll bring some of this discussion

1385
01:23:21.065 --> 01:23:22.764
too. I think it'd be really interesting

1386
01:23:23.545 --> 01:23:26.520
to bring that in, and we're we're it's it's kind of

1387
01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:28.780
based off of the conference

1388
01:23:29.720 --> 01:23:32.440
talk and expanding on that. And,

1389
01:23:32.920 --> 01:23:35.880
so I'm looking forward to that. There's information on that.

1390
01:23:35.880 --> 01:23:37.900
Oh, I think Robin just put that in there.

1391
01:23:38.520 --> 01:23:42.140
Also, for those that are concerned with picky eaters and hypersensitivity,

1392
01:23:42.495 --> 01:23:49.555
there is a course on hypersensitivity coming up this fall too with Jewel, who is just really lovely from Germany.

1393
01:23:49.775 --> 01:23:50.355
Oh, yes.

1394
01:23:51.775 --> 01:23:56.015
And that would be be really great to take part in if you if you can.

1395
01:23:56.015 --> 01:23:57.715
That's also what's starting in October.

1396
01:23:58.320 --> 01:23:59.920
And there's a play course as well.

1397
01:23:59.920 --> 01:24:03.940
Bree, one of our faculty, is is going to be offering that this fall,

1398
01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:07.540
which is also a great topic when it comes to food.

1399
01:24:08.400 --> 01:24:09.060
And then,

1400
01:24:09.760 --> 01:24:13.105
and then, of course, our foundational making sense of kids, the intensive one.

1401
01:24:13.105 --> 01:24:15.685
There's just all these opportunities that are starting up.

1402
01:24:16.225 --> 01:24:21.125
And then also Saskatchewan, Deb was just reminding me that we are going to be speaking in

1403
01:24:21.745 --> 01:24:23.905
Saskatchewan at a conference. It's also hybrid.

1404
01:24:23.905 --> 01:24:27.050
So if you're not close to Saskatchewan, you can still join online.

1405
01:24:27.350 --> 01:24:32.330
And Deborah's going to be talking about maybe you could talk about it while my dog works just for a moment.

1406
01:24:33.830 --> 01:24:40.010
Just looking at, how we make sense of feeding and eating problems through relational developmental lens.

1407
01:24:40.385 --> 01:24:47.365
So changing the questions we ask and the approaches that we take and, and finding our way through these problems differently.

1408
01:24:49.265 --> 01:24:50.565
Thank you. Perfect timing.

1409
01:24:54.360 --> 01:24:59.240
There's other things too where I'm going to talk about some things and Gordon's going to talk about some things and Eva's going to talk about some things.

1410
01:24:59.240 --> 01:25:02.540
It'll be a great three day conference. So it's going to be Yes.

1411
01:25:03.160 --> 01:25:03.820
Be quite,

1412
01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:12.454
and in three hour, we're going to have a time to really unpack some of the, some of the sessions, and I'm gonna be talking about emotional playgrounds.

1413
01:25:12.514 --> 01:25:14.855
And, yeah, there's all kinds of things there.

1414
01:25:14.994 --> 01:25:20.054
But I wanna just give the last words here to both you, Gordon and Deborah,

1415
01:25:20.540 --> 01:25:24.960
to any last pieces that you'd like to share about the book before we close?

1416
01:25:26.140 --> 01:25:26.640
Well,

1417
01:25:27.180 --> 01:25:28.719
thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1418
01:25:29.500 --> 01:25:37.385
I I I would have written a different before you read this book saying that everybody reads it, like, it could not possibly be a waste of your time.

1419
01:25:38.645 --> 01:25:40.985
Though it doesn't matter who you are, everybody

1420
01:25:42.005 --> 01:25:43.145
every single person,

1421
01:25:43.685 --> 01:25:48.905
as far as I'm concerned, needs to read this book if only for the matchmaking to nature.

1422
01:25:49.580 --> 01:25:50.960
Like, what a beautiful

1423
01:25:51.500 --> 01:25:55.600
way of bringing us to understand and appreciate and honor.

1424
01:25:56.460 --> 01:25:57.600
Hats off to you.

1425
01:25:58.940 --> 01:25:59.440
I,

1426
01:26:00.460 --> 01:26:02.880
you've you've really have,

1427
01:26:04.755 --> 01:26:05.255
it

1428
01:26:05.595 --> 01:26:06.895
it it is a masterpiece

1429
01:26:07.515 --> 01:26:08.895
that you have put together,

1430
01:26:10.075 --> 01:26:10.315
and,

1431
01:26:12.075 --> 01:26:16.175
and I wish it a very long life, which it deserves.

1432
01:26:17.115 --> 01:26:18.095
Okay. Well,

1433
01:26:18.570 --> 01:26:22.270
thank you for that. And, I wish the same for it as well.

1434
01:26:23.290 --> 01:26:26.330
And I'm just so grateful. I'm just so grateful for,

1435
01:26:28.170 --> 01:26:34.955
the stories, I guess, that were given to me that I got to tell that I became a medium, I think, for telling and putting together.

1436
01:26:34.955 --> 01:26:39.155
And so, and I'm grateful for all the support and for the wisdom

1437
01:26:39.855 --> 01:26:40.675
of understanding,

1438
01:26:42.415 --> 01:26:45.875
you know, human attachment, the way that I do, that I've been taught,

1439
01:26:46.655 --> 01:26:47.555
that I practice,

1440
01:26:47.935 --> 01:26:49.475
you know, from this approach

1441
01:26:50.070 --> 01:26:50.730
and just

1442
01:26:51.430 --> 01:26:52.330
never losing

1443
01:26:52.870 --> 01:26:58.410
that message and all these beautiful details of human emotion and the sophistication of the science of play.

1444
01:26:58.710 --> 01:27:02.890
But every everything comes back to that same place of not forgetting

1445
01:27:03.465 --> 01:27:08.285
ourselves in relationship to nature and to being humble in the face of that and to being respectful

1446
01:27:09.065 --> 01:27:09.805
and to,

1447
01:27:10.905 --> 01:27:17.085
being reciprocal once again, and to, to get back into right relationship where we need to be. So

1448
01:27:17.400 --> 01:27:22.380
this, it has felt like a gift that was given to me. It wasn't something I was chosen, but found me.

1449
01:27:22.520 --> 01:27:24.780
And I'm grateful for it that it has,

1450
01:27:25.640 --> 01:27:27.900
and, and, and wish this book,

1451
01:27:28.520 --> 01:27:30.940
which feels very much separate from me now,

1452
01:27:31.320 --> 01:27:32.360
to be honest with you,

1453
01:27:33.185 --> 01:27:37.425
it feels like my dance has kind of come to a bit of an end as it goes out there in the world.

1454
01:27:37.425 --> 01:27:42.965
Of course, I'll support it as any It will find a life of its own. I thank you for passing it on.

1455
01:27:43.185 --> 01:27:49.940
And I wish it well and I, and I wish it, it, it finds its way into the homes and hearts where it belongs.

1456
01:27:50.559 --> 01:27:55.619
So thank you. Thank you everyone for coming in and supporting this work. I'm so grateful.

1457
01:27:58.000 --> 01:27:59.059
Well, thank you.

1458
01:27:59.599 --> 01:28:03.494
Thank you to all of you who have been here to be part of this, and,

1459
01:28:03.954 --> 01:28:06.454
yeah, hope you enjoy. I know you will.

1460
01:28:07.795 --> 01:28:08.775
She says confidence.

1461
01:28:11.875 --> 01:28:12.375
Alright.